Grapplers...

[Q mystic]

to you, for mma, would judo resemble more as wrestler with good subs or bjjer with good takedowns?

Of course depending on who they fight or what level but generally speaking which do you feel?

Might be difficult not including your pov as a grappler but with regards to only what we see in mma. Thanks.

 

[Foolkiller]

I'd say the first probably. Although to be honest I'd rather just view a judoka as a judoka.

 

[Q mystic]

I'd say the first probably. Although to be honest I'd rather just view a judoka as a judoka.

Interesting. But then you are a bjjer so I better edit as well. Thanks.

Not to cut you short Super but you bring a point I shoulda defined.

 

[knoxpk]

Me I dont see them as either. I see them as judoka its pretty distinctive the style. Mostly throws some nice holddowns and pretty nice subs.

 

[Q mystic]

Me I dont see them as either. I see them as judoka its pretty distinctive the style. Mostly throws some nice holddowns and pretty nice subs.

Come on Knoxpk, you know what I am asking.:icon_lol:

Err....maybe your last sentence was your answer?

 

[GuardGame]

BJJ, FreeStyle and Greco Roman Wrestling > Judo IMO

 

[Q mystic]

BJJ, FreeStyle and Greco Roman Wrestling > Judo IMO

Bjj, freestyle and greco < judo, fries and a coke.:icon_lol:

 

[Soid]

Hmm.. I don't see them as either. Judo has it's own little place in my opinion as judo fighters are for the most part ok with submissions, good with takedowns and are good at holding people down although sweat might make it harder. After re-reading my post I have no idea to be honest.

Anyone pissed at how Nakamura and Nastula couldn't take their opponents down. I couldn't believe I saw Nastula pull guard. Both won their fights but I was looking forward to seeing those guys thrown on their heads.

 

[Q mystic]

Hmm.. I don't see them as either. Judo has it's own little place in my opinion as judo fighters are for the most part ok with submissions, good with takedowns and are good at holding people down although sweat might make it harder. After re-reading my post I have no idea to be honest.

Anyone pissed at how Nakamura and Nastula couldn't take their opponents down. I couldn't believe I saw Nastula pull guard. Both won their fights but I was looking forward to seeing those guys thrown on their heads.

I was close to making a thread about gaurd and how it might actually be underated again:icon_lol: in mma. I mean some guys seem to have shot and throw defence down and maybe gaurd should be reconsidered but wanted to think of more times it should have been applied. Plus I make too many threads. You should. I think it would be good.

But... I don't think clinch throws or takedowns are or should be 'forced'. Grapplers that want to take it to the ground HAVE to get a good striking game going 'or else' anyway. THAT is where clinch takedowns will show, as the striking game evolves. Two good grapplers can stalemate as easy as two good strikers and that means clinch as we all know. Very well rounded. Fedors strikes were strong basics but good enuff to get nice takedowns to win.

 

[tudor_bjj]

For MMA, judo resembles with Yoshida and Nastula pulling guard...

 

[Terrier]

I'd say closer to the second one - but it is its own style so I'd say jus think of it as Judo.

 

[Deleted member 3729]

Depends on person

 

[El Gato]

It does depend on the person and what they bring to the table ( their own personal flavor ) . I would say the second , a BJJ with good takedowns .

 

[Commissar]

I was close to making a thread about gaurd and how it might actually be underated again:icon_lol: in mma. I mean some guys seem to have shot and throw defence down and maybe gaurd should be reconsidered but wanted to think of more times it should have been applied. Plus I make too many threads. You should. I think it would be good.

But... I don't think clinch throws or takedowns are or should be 'forced'. Grapplers that want to take it to the ground HAVE to get a good striking game going 'or else' anyway. THAT is where clinch takedowns will show, as the striking game evolves. Two good grapplers can stalemate as easy as two good strikers and that means clinch as we all know. Very well rounded. Fedors strikes were strong basics but good enuff to get nice takedowns to win.

This is an interesting point, and I agree. The guard is underrated again in MMA.

When MMA started, nobody knew what the guard was, but Royce raped people with a very basic version of closed guard. Now, most people, if not everyone, at least knows what the guard is. Nowadays, if I'm grappling with a buddy whose never grappled before and I start controlling his arm, he knows what I'm targetting. Everyone knows this.

However, very few people know just how advanced and evolved the guard has become. I think now, the more people that get advanced guards - spider guard, x-guard, butterfly guard - it'll completely change the groundgame of MMA. I doubt you'll have someone like Royce Gracie did, and rape everyone, but taking a few people that have such an advanced guard would force everyone else to increase their game.

 

[hayliks]

depends on the person... you can argue this any which way. I know some judo guys who are outstanding in gi takedowns, but don't know shit on the ground. I also know some judo guys who are ok with takedowns, but could hang with solid blue and purple belts in bjj.

 

[colinm]

well, judo and bjj share a lot of the same techniques, they just emphasize different things...so i'd say judoka and bjjers are more alike than wrestlers and judoka. lots of wrestlers, unless they totally change their game, won't have a decent guard, guard passes, or submissions off their back. look at how nakamura did they keylock variation on cyborg...lots of wrestlers use the keylock cause its a simploe submissions you can power out....but naka had cyborg's arm trapped between his legs, had great control, took his time...it was very beautifully done, IMO, the kind of ground work you associate with good jiu jitsu guys. nastula also finished his opponent from his guard with an armbar, something you never see wrestlers do.

however, at the end of the day, we ARE talking about MMA fighters here..none of these guys are pure judoka anymore.

 

[Bubble Boy]

Once again an interesting Q thread.

I know that I personally want to try to be more like a wrestler with good subs when I pretend at MMA stuff in the dojo. Unfortunately my judo looks more like a hybrid Nacho Libre / Rex Kwon Do thing.

Anyone pissed at how Nakamura and Nastula couldn't take their opponents down. I couldn't believe I saw Nastula pull guard. Both won their fights but I was looking forward to seeing those guys thrown on their heads.

Yeah kind of, but Drago and Cyborg probably focused a huge majority of their prepatory training to specifically NOT getting thrown. Because of that, other things opened up for the judo guys that might not have for other fighters. Still, a nice judo throw would have been stellar...

 

[sha]

I think judokas have their own style for MMA. Judo is a good base to be well rounded, and not concentrate only on the takedown like wrestlers or only on the sub like jujitsu guys.

 

[Soid]

well, judo and bjj share a lot of the same techniques, they just emphasize different things...so i'd say judoka and bjjers are more alike than wrestlers and judoka. lots of wrestlers, unless they totally change their game, won't have a decent guard, guard passes, or submissions off their back. look at how nakamura did they keylock variation on cyborg...lots of wrestlers use the keylock cause its a simploe submissions you can power out....but naka had cyborg's arm trapped between his legs, had great control, took his time...it was very beautifully done, IMO, the kind of ground work you associate with good jiu jitsu guys. nastula also finished his opponent from his guard with an armbar, something you never see wrestlers do.

however, at the end of the day, we ARE talking about MMA fighters here..none of these guys are pure judoka anymore.

I should've known better not to bet a dollar against Nakamura. Cyborg just looked real bad ass Next time I'll choose my bets more wisely

 

[Q mystic]

Once again an interesting Q thread.

I know that I personally want to try to be more like a wrestler with good subs when I pretend at MMA stuff in the dojo. Unfortunately my judo looks more like a hybrid Nacho Libre / Rex Kwon Do thing.



Yeah kind of, but Drago and Cyborg probably focused a huge majority of their prepatory training to specifically NOT getting thrown. Because of that, other things opened up for the judo guys that might not have for other fighters. Still, a nice judo throw would have been stellar...

As a wrestler? Yes, me too.

But that may be decieving to noobs or 'straight' wrestlers as we from judo do have a decent sub game from the beginning(keep elbows in at day 1). Too many wrestlers new to mma seem to think that the sub game is 'just tricks or moves'.

regarding the takedowns again I I say too early as in that when the striking game evolves(hopefully) that we will see many more clinches 'al'a modern pro boxing and kickboxing' and that is where throws and sweeps will come to the front. We cannot expect throws from 'scrappin' judoka the same way.

I read a thread a week ago asking 'will Karo judo flip so and so'? Not a very smart question as flips and trips are our 'self-defence' to getting punched out. Not an outright offense. And with what seems to be happining in mma it will (or should) be very 'counter' to a better striker. Did that come out right?

Fedor knows that he will be good on ground with (takedown) and top control. Good sub defence. He did know as well that he needed HARD strong basic striking game to get there with the strikers. No carving or slicing, just hard heavy correct tecjh for the takedown. Getting off here but wgat was I saying?:icon_lol:

Karo with his judo 'flips' is thee most 'experienced judoka' in there. We are just hoping he is physical and pushes it. Love....:icon_lol: