Gotten Worse: Michael Mann or Ridley Scott

highkicknomore

highkicknomore

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Both directors were awesome but there newer movies are pretty bad.

Ridley's classics: Alien, Black Hawk Down, Gladiator

Recent: Prometheus, Gods and Kings, Robin Hood

Mann's classics: Heat, Collateral, Last Of The Mohicans

Recent: Miami Vice, Black Hat, Public Enemy

I'd have to go with Mann. He fell in love with using hand held cams and the acting has gotten worse. You'd think Foxx can't act based on Miami Vice. His lighting is pretty bad too since he relies on "natural lighting."

Scott has made some boring movies like Robin Hood but they're still more entertaining than Mann's. Prometheus was a disappointment but still had cool scenes, similar with Gods and Kings.
 
His lighting is pretty bad too since he relies on "natural lighting."
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What do you mean by this? I know in the behind the scenes of Collateral they showed a tremendous amount of lighting that was rigged for the cab scenes. I'm also pretty confident you couldn't really make a high budget film without lighting scenes properly.
 
Robin Hood was atrocious. laughably bad imo. i call it a draw.
 
HK's referring to Mann's use of digital (film) that requires less light, which Mann adopts for his penchant for flat realism.

The answer is Ridley Scott because he's clearly relying on his crew, whereas I think Mann's still the guy who wants to operate the camera. Especially, if HK is citing MIAMI VICE as a lesser work, which it motherfucking ain't.
 
weich said:
What do you mean by this? I know in the behind the scenes of Collateral they showed a tremendous amount of lighting that was rigged for the cab scenes. I'm also pretty confident you couldn't really make a high budget film without lighting scenes properly.
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Also in behind the scenes of Collateral, he said he likes to use digital cam because he doesn't have to setup lighting. Maybe he still uses it but he tries to make it as natural as he can. Public Enemies action scenes at night sucked because it was too dark.
 
Prometheus was the worst movie ever...

And, while I think it could've 1000 times better, I think I'm only person that actually liked Miami vice....
 
I regard MIAMI VICE as his best. There's at least one other guy, but I'm not going to out him.

highkicknomore said:
Public Enemies action scenes at night sucked because it was too dark.
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I totally get that.

At the same time I thought it was pretty cool he could make the claim: If you went back in time, this is EXACTLY how it would look.

I love the burst from BabyFace:

 
Miami Vice was very underrated and Public Enemy was ok, Blackhat I've tried watching 3 times and cant make it through

Prometheus, and Gods and Kings were bad. Never got around to see Robin Hood, I watched 20 minutes of it and that was enough for me

I can still watch Vice and Public Enemy if it was on which isnt the case with any of Scotts recent films
 
BLACKHAT is a chore. Too much waiting for the juice.

Cyber-crime is unfilmmable.
 
Three Gun Fish said:
I regard MIAMI VICE as his best.
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Nobody shoots Miami like Mann, so he is still the fucking man, despite his missteps.
 
I know, PJ. I know.

It's hard to believe but HEAT was initially considered a bigger disappointment than MIAMI VICE. People felt the shared screen time was much too short, even though Mann purposefully constructed it that way. And of course Pacino-hate was launching into full-swing about this time. It's been interesting to see how lauded its become. HEAT is the major motion picture version of LA TAKEDOWN, and as hard as it is for me to say it: it's not much better. It's got the same dramatic weight.

MIAMI VICE captures the tone and essence of "Smuggler's Blues" perfectly, PLUS it looks better than any episode there was, and it looks better than HEAT. It's ballsy as hell. Jaunty. Not to mention romantic. For me, it includes the correct version of Neil McCauley's romance with Eady, who was originally supposed to be Asian until Bai Ling was replaced by Amy Brenneman. Asian makes more sense than Appalachian, due to non-verbal aspect of their relationship.

Nobody beats Albert Torino, though. Ricky Harris is a god in HEAT.
 
The critisisms against Ridley Scott are laregly unfair, IMO.

Scott's problems seem to be that:

1) He shoots movies too fast.

2) Bad scripts.

Prometheus was bad, but that's mainly because of the script. Exodus also had a no-so-stellar stellar script.

But the fact is, both of those movies looked great. Especially Exodus.

Also, The Counselor is underrated and criticized too harshly. The first hour is a mess, in terms of story. But the second hour is a fantastic crime thriller. And the whole movie looked great.

Ridley Scott has still got it, and The Martian will be great.
 
I was going over Scotts movies for the past year. Id say his movies are the bigger let downs because of the name. Mann doesnt disappoint me as much.

Tony Scott had the funner movies IMO.
 
Miami Vice was pure crap.

Sorry TGF.

I almost walked out on that piece of shit.

Prometheus was ok for the visuals.

I'm a big Heat fan and a big Blade Runner fan.

I'll just say that The Counselor sucked and Blackhat sucked.
 
Three Gun Fish said:
I know, PJ. I know.

It's hard to believe but HEAT was initially considered a bigger disappointment than MIAMI VICE. People felt the shared screen time was much too short, even though Mann purposefully constructed it that way. And of course Pacino-hate was launching into full-swing about this time. It's been interesting to see how lauded its become. HEAT is the major motion picture version of LA TAKEDOWN, and as hard as it is for me to say it: it's not much better. It's got the same dramatic weight.

MIAMI VICE captures the tone and essence of "Smuggler's Blues" perfectly, PLUS it looks better than any episode there was, and it looks better than HEAT. It's ballsy as hell. Jaunty. Not to mention romantic. For me, it includes the correct version of Neil McCauley's romance with Eady, who was originally supposed to be Asian until Bai Ling was replaced by Amy Brenneman. Asian makes more sense than Appalachian, due to non-verbal aspect of their relationship.

Nobody beats Albert Torino, though. Ricky Harris is a god in HEAT.
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You didn't mind the acting?
 
I couldnt function after that first scene in the counselor. Had to wax my bod and shave my tongue to feel normal again.
 
I think I would have liked to have seen Michael Mann doing THE COUNSELOR.

highkicknomore said:
Miami Vice in general. To me, it seemed like they were trying too hard to be intense. The delivery was pretty bad too. It didn't feel natural.
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WHAT'S THE ASK?!

I've struggled with Mann dialogue, and Mamet too, but once I get it -- and let me tell you: sometimes I don't -- it captures the moment perfectly, and feels very true.

MIAMI VICE's dialogue comprises shorthand between long-standing crews, the trick is to make it sound like they've known each other forever without sacrificing meaning to the new guy (us). These are people operating at high adrenaline, and the film is slowing down just enough for us to catch on. Just barely.

Further limiting MIAMI VICE is we're introduced to the plot through John Hawkes, whose dialogue is not supposed to make any sense because of his frantic state. From there it's a game of Telephone all the way to Ciaran Hinds* -- so you've got a very stilted and awkward conversation at the beginning of the film.

I recommend you watch BAD BOYS 2 and MIAMI VICE back-to-back.

Then tell me which feels more natural, more macho, looks better, etc. etc.




* Whose name is Fujima? I always wondered if Mann race-casted Fujima in response to Ken Leung playing Lloyd Bowman in RED DRAGON, the remake of MANHUNTER.
 
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