Gordon Ryan subbed by Felipe Pena

[BJJkid94]

I agree. Different rule sets are essentially just different sets of incentives (or rewards as you say)for a particular goal. My problem with no-time limit, sub-only, is that tends to incentivize a lackluster, energy-conserving style, with little concern for guard passing. Engaging in the guard passing/guard retention battle just oftentimes isn't worth the energy expenditure, considering the fact that bottom side control in no-gi, without strikes or points, just isn't that bad of a position. The irony here, is that points-based rule sets, which highly encourage a guard player to prevent the guard pass at all costs, probably lead to more submissions than the no-time limit, sub-only format (although that is just based on my personal observations).

There is much more to be said on this topic, and what I've said are largely generalizations (some sub-only competitors are quite active), but taking the focus off of positional control, and guard passing/retention, can be problematic. Sub-only is sometimes fun to watch; but I think it should be more of an occasional novelty, rather than an equal (or even greater than equal) alternative to points-based rule sets.

Great insight and I agree very much with your perspective.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Burns is top level competition but remember, he's not the same grappler as he was when he was in the prime of his grappling career. He has been focusing on MMA lately and has fought very frequently in a short amount of time. He has also taken some considerable damage in some of his fights recently. Even for a top level guy like Burns, it is very possible for them to fall to a young, hungry guy like Tonon who is fully focused on grappling

He just took bronze at adcc... All while being a full time Mma fighter...

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Great insight and I agree very much with your perspective.

I wonder if your perception is a little compressed by the time limits. How many actual deep guard pass attempts will there be in a black belt IBJJF match between two relatively equal opponents? You're looking at 2 or 3 max, and that's with the heavy incentives to score points within the time limit. I think you see the same number of attempts in a long sub-only match, just that the longer time limit makes it seem more plodding than a mad rush to score before the buzzer. The other big difference is that sub-only largely removes 'ineffectual' sweeping (points moves that do little to effect one's chance of a submission), so you tend to see more tactical guard playing and passing.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

He just took bronze at adcc... All while being a full time Mma fighter...

True. Then he fought (and lost) in the UFC 3 weeks after ADCC and took significant damage. Then faces Tonon a month and a half later. Not really enough time to train well and recover especially when you're probably getting concussed from hard fights

 

[PayPerView]

You're clearly a DDS nut hugging white belt.

No actually I'm Gordon Ryan, so it wouldn't make sense for me to hug my own nut. And it looks like I'm an orange belt. But good try though.

 

[yetanother]

just that the longer time limit makes it seem more plodding than a mad rush to score before the buzzer.

I wouldn't call IBJJF matches a mad rush.
There lack of real stalling call really slows the game down.
The rules don't encourage you to attack and the fact that your opponent can stall out when you do a mistake discourages action.

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

No actually I'm Gordon Ryan, so it wouldn't make sense for me to hug my own nut. And it looks like I'm an orange belt. But good try though.

You're a white belt in real life. Now...

 

[porkchopbjj]

i love all the keyboard warriors on here hating on the DDS. THEY are beasts that would wipe the mat with all of us

 

[PayPerView]

You're a white belt in real life. Now...

Nope, try again. But you can think that if you like. Whatever helps you sleep at night pal.

How about this, I'll just stop responding so you can enjoy your false sense of accomplishment.

Congrats.

- Gordon

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

Nope, try again. But you can think that if you like. Whatever helps you sleep at night pal.

How about this, I'll just stop responding so you can enjoy your false sense of accomplishment.

Congrats.

- Gordon

Talking about grappling in 2006:

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/bruised-sprained-ribs-from-grappling.328760/

Gordon would have been 11 or 12? He started grappling when he was 15.

No. And, infact, pretending to be a fighter is a banable offense. Luckily @Zankou is a nice guy and probably won't ban you this time.

 

[PayPerView]

I'm disappointed that Ryan declined Pena's challenge. They're fun to watch fight, but it really detracts from their challenges when they won't make some or even any of the same concessions, especially against a guy he lost to under his own rules.

It is really Gordon's only option. There is slim chance he beats Pena in the Gi unless it's somehow sub only and heel hooks are legal. Even then Pena would probably still win because of the familiarity of the Gi.

Gordon made a gamble to get his name out there, followed Floyd/Connor's formula. No surprise, the dumb ones fell for the bait and are now keyboard warrioring to the max. He has probably made quite a bit from super fights and sponsorships as well as privates from this and probably thought he could beat Pena but got caught. Eitherway, what he set out to do, which was make a name for himself and make money has been accomplished.

The funniest thing is that I've met and trained with him and he is a complete introvert. He is very shy and quiet and his voice does not match his body. During training he was very respectful and hardly said a word while beating pretty much everyone in the room. At the time, he was very into triangles from the back but had heel hooks as well. It's funny how this fake internet persona has triggered so many people. Lol.

 

[loyalyolayal]

Wrong he Would wreck 100% of the board

Except dan and kpoz.

 

[randomg1t]

Any time you see pro wrestling antics get attention, it's because the antics hit some core taboo or unspoken conflict within the given culture. For DDS, it's that they are irreverant to many norms of BJJ, such as traditional ideas of positional dominance, stoic behavioral codes, open tournaments as ultimate arbiters of skill, wearing the gi, etc. Just as significantly, they are loud East Coast white guys with an Aussie coach, instead of quiet, team-first students with an old school Brazilian grandmaster.

you seriously think those are the reasons people dislike them?

josh barnett is very respected in the entire bjj community and he doesn't value position over everything else, is not even remotely stoic, only entered a handful of tournaments, never wears a gi and was trained by erik paulson. and he beat some bjj legends. stop trying to turn this into some weird discrimination, because it's clear as day that it isn't the case here.

they are disliked because they act like douchebags. well, ryan and danaher do, cummings is pretty tame as far as i can tell. but ryan will call people out under his very specific ruleset, while wearing a plastic crown and glasses. under his ruleset, his game largely depends on him defending until his opponent slows down and then snatching up a leg - which is fine, he is very good at that, but to act as if that's the ultimate measure of skill is ridiculous. he claims he's the best out there and that everyone should face him, yet he refuses to seek out his opponents in tournaments like any other up-and-comer. he behaves as if he is the name that everyone should fight, but he isn't. what would you think of me if i started bitching about buchecha refusing to fight me, when i'm clearly the best motherfucker on sherdog? you would ridicule me, and rightfully so. and there's a video out there of him behaving like an absolute prick when rolling with someone obviously way beneath his level. he's just a fucking douche.

i have not seen anyone criticize them for their skill or work ethic. in fact, people largely look up to them in those regards. it's their behavior that irks people, not their deviance from bjj tradition.

 

[yetanother]

josh barnett is very respected in the entire bjj community and he doesn't value position over everything else

Josh Barnett is a very position oriented guy.
He fights like a fat heavyweight mma fighter he is not as a low percentage move hungry crazy catch wrestler.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

you seriously think those are the reasons people dislike them?

josh barnett is very respected in the entire bjj community and he doesn't value position over everything else, is not even remotely stoic, only entered a handful of tournaments, never wears a gi and was trained by erik paulson. and he beat some bjj legends. stop trying to turn this into some weird discrimination, because it's clear as day that it isn't the case here.

they are disliked because they act like douchebags. well, ryan and danaher do, cummings is pretty tame as far as i can tell. but ryan will call people out under his very specific ruleset, while wearing a plastic crown and glasses. under his ruleset, his game largely depends on him defending until his opponent slows down and then snatching up a leg - which is fine, he is very good at that, but to act as if that's the ultimate measure of skill is ridiculous. he claims he's the best out there and that everyone should face him, yet he refuses to seek out his opponents in tournaments like any other up-and-comer. he behaves as if he is the name that everyone should fight, but he isn't. what would you think of me if i started bitching about buchecha refusing to fight me, when i'm clearly the best motherfucker on sherdog? you would ridicule me, and rightfully so. and there's a video out there of him behaving like an absolute prick when rolling with someone obviously way beneath his level. he's just a fucking douche.

i have not seen anyone criticize them for their skill or work ethic. in fact, people largely look up to them in those regards. it's their behavior that irks people, not their deviance from bjj tradition.

I believe ia not the dds entirely, Garry tonnon is cool as fuck, but he is in the MKT thing trying to make money. Gordon on the other hand seems like a real life douche, the thing he did in that kid at that invitational was pretty awful...

 

[NSchoke]

they are disliked because they act like douchebags. well, ryan and danaher do, cummings is pretty tame as far as i can tell. but ryan will call people out under his very specific ruleset, while wearing a plastic crown and glasses. under his ruleset, his game largely depends on him defending until his opponent slows down and then snatching up a leg - which is fine, he is very good at that, but to act as if that's the ultimate measure of skill is ridiculous. he claims he's the best out there and that everyone should face him, yet he refuses to seek out his opponents in tournaments like any other up-and-comer. he behaves as if he is the name that everyone should fight, but he isn't. what would you think of me if i started bitching about buchecha refusing to fight me, when i'm clearly the best motherfucker on sherdog? you would ridicule me, and rightfully so. and there's a video out there of him behaving like an absolute prick when rolling with someone obviously way beneath his level. he's just a fucking douche.

Gordon's game does not depend on defending until someone gets tired. He's attacking the whole time. He was in deep on Pena's legs within like 2 minutes of this match. The guys he's calling out are super tough, the matches are going to go a while.

He has competed in many tournaments. He has ibjjf Worlds title at brown belt, not eligible for black because he got promoted too quick. I'd guess he'll do ADCC next year, and he won 2 EBI tournaments. What would you like to see from him?

What more did he say to Buchecha than call him out? Challanging pro competitors to a match isn't offensive IMO.

Is there a link to the video of him being such a prick during a friendly rolling session?

The stuff with wearing the crown and whatnot is just schtick, it gets him attention which gets him more money. Not feelin it? fine, it costs you nothing, pay him no mind.

 

[NSchoke]

I believe ia not the dds entirely, Garry tonnon is cool as fuck, but he is in the MKT thing trying to make money. Gordon on the other hand seems like a real life douche, the thing he did in that kid at that invitational was pretty awful...

Competition is different, here is Galvao doing worse in tournament

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Competition is different, here is Galvao doing worse in tournament

That was an ibjjf tournament... The one I'm talking about was an exhibition match, and they didn't even had an oppoent for him, they pulled out a kid and threw at him. There was absolutely no need for Gordon to have done that.

 

[randomg1t]

Gordon's game does not depend on defending until someone gets tired. He's attacking the whole time. He was in deep on Pena's legs within like 2 minutes of this match. The guys he's calling out are super tough, the matches are going to go a while.

He has competed in many tournaments. He has ibjjf Worlds title at brown belt, not eligible for black because he got promoted too quick. I'd guess he'll do ADCC next year, and he won 2 EBI tournaments. What would you like to see from him?

What more did he say to Buchecha than call him out? Challanging pro competitors to a match isn't offensive IMO.

Is there a link to the video of him being such a prick during a friendly rolling session?

The stuff with wearing the crown and whatnot is just schtick, it gets him attention which gets him more money. Not feelin it? fine, it costs you nothing, pay him no mind.

when i say he defends until they gas, i don't mean that he literally clams up and does nothing. but he does conserve a lot of energy only defending, while the other guy is trying his best to submit him. since there are no points, he can sit back and not worry about getting passed a gazillion times. he did it against keenan, he did it against pena. of course he goes for stuff, but the top guys handle it just fine when they aren't dead tired. see, you will again try to spin this as a knock on the kid, when it really isn't. the rules state he can do this, and he excels under those rules. what i'm saying is he (and fucking danaher) acts like winning under those rules is the only true measure of skill, when it really isn't.

as far as the rest of the post, i was replying to the guy who claimed we dislike DDS because they're white guys on the east coast who refuse to bow to their brazilian oppressors. it was an obtuse observation, seeing as there's plenty of other annoying shit they do.

i mentioned tournaments, because it's how anyone can make a name for themselves in BJJ. you want buchecha, rodolfo, marcelo's top 3 so bad? enter any of the tournaments they compete in and kick their ass. that's what people normally do. hell, that's how these very top guys built their names, by entering tournaments and mopping the floor with the previous champions. they didn't put on a plastic crown and challenge them in an instagram post, then bitched about being avoided when matches aren't agreed upon.

it wasn't a rolling session he was a dick in, i think it was some tournament. look it up, i don't have it on me.

well yeah, i'm not losing sleep over ryan being a douche, but i don't think i'm crossing any lines when i explain to his fans why i find him annoying. and it isn't because he's white.

 

[NSchoke]

That was an ibjjf tournament... The one I'm talking about was an exhibition match, and they didn't even had an oppoent for him, they pulled out a kid and threw at him. There was absolutely no need for Gordon to have done that.

Was it this one? This is from his opponents youtube page and he calls it a Super Fight. From his description and his comments under the video I think he knew he was at a competition. If this is the one this guys no victim, just came up short that day.