Good example

[shincheckin]

A while back I made some comments in a post in regards to Muay Thai having more movement now because of a MMA influence, it quickly turned into a online war as is the norm here on sherdog. I definitely stand corrected in the sense that it is not something the thais are really adopting, and the thais are still dominating with the more stationary walk down style of theirs, and infact elusive Muay Thai has been done before. Although who's adopting this style or examples of it being used and dominating fights by said fighter was not my intention of my previous posts, that being said, without being able to provide examples of fighters using this more elusive style today, doesn't mean that a style of Muay Thai, being influenced by MMA does not exist, IMO. And I do feel that this style of fighting is more effective than the march down style, despite the fact that the march down style of fighting was my fighting style.

I feel these fighters and many more you can find on siam boxing are a good example of the style I am speaking of. Some of these fighters are Muay Thai fighters, kickboxers, and MMA fighters, is it MMA with a heavy Muay Thai influence, or Muay Thai with a heavy MMA influence, you can decide for yourself. Whether it's been done before or not, I feel this is a good example of the "new" style of Muay Thai that is developing with much more movement than we are used to seeing. Of course this is just my opinion on the theory of mine. My opinions and theory are based off my experiences, which involves roughly 20 years of on and off training, sparring, coaching, and a handful of smoker fights, and 10 sanctioned fights.

enjoy

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

It's an interesting distinction.

Muay thai in the West and muay Thai in Thailand only intersect somewhat - a lot of trainers will spend some time in Thailand, learn their skills, and then take them to the West. It's very rare that a Western nak muay will break into the Thai scene with a bang - it's somewhat more common that someone like Buakaw or Saenchi will make an impact in the West, but most of the folks fighting in Thailand don't really have much of an interest in breaking out in the West. Apparently in Thailand people know Samart more for his skill in western boxing than his skill in muay Thai because it's considered more sophisticated.

The rules used in Thailand are strongly influenced by gambling culture, which tends towards emphasizing the stationary, walk down style, but that doesn't mean that there aren't elusive fighters in Thailand either.

 

[shincheckin]

It's an interesting distinction.

Muay thai in the West and muay Thai in Thailand only intersect somewhat - a lot of trainers will spend some time in Thailand, learn their skills, and then take them to the West. It's very rare that a Western nak muay will break into the Thai scene with a bang - it's somewhat more common that someone like Buakaw or Saenchi will make an impact in the West, but most of the folks fighting in Thailand don't really have much of an interest in breaking out in the West. Apparently in Thailand people know Samart more for his skill in western boxing than his skill in muay Thai because it's considered more sophisticated.

The rules used in Thailand are strongly influenced by gambling culture, which tends towards emphasizing the stationary, walk down style, but that doesn't mean that there aren't elusive fighters in Thailand either.

Agree with you 100%, I believe there is a YouTube video of samart speaking about something similar a few years ago. Scoring effecting fighting style.

I think the elusive style of fighting is better. A example of this would be the much less experienced haggerty with a elusive style beating the much more experienced Sam A with his more stationary style

 

[DoctorTaco]

It's an interesting distinction.

Muay thai in the West and muay Thai in Thailand only intersect somewhat - a lot of trainers will spend some time in Thailand, learn their skills, and then take them to the West. It's very rare that a Western nak muay will break into the Thai scene with a bang - it's somewhat more common that someone like Buakaw or Saenchi will make an impact in the West, but most of the folks fighting in Thailand don't really have much of an interest in breaking out in the West. Apparently in Thailand people know Samart more for his skill in western boxing than his skill in muay Thai because it's considered more sophisticated.

The rules used in Thailand are strongly influenced by gambling culture, which tends towards emphasizing the stationary, walk down style, but that doesn't mean that there aren't elusive fighters in Thailand either.

you also have to consider that the Muay Thai people learn differs from one region of Thailand to the next and that the same is true here in the states. The Muay Thai style in California is different than what you learn in the Midwest and east coast.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I noticed a lot of mma influenced/western Muay Thai is just kickboxing to me lol.
Saenchai I feel like is not mma influenced but he’s a good example of a muay femur style.

I’m not sure how relevant this is but I like watching illias ennahachis sparring videos on ig

I like watching this guy too. He originally fights Muay Thai but I think he’s been getting into mma now

 

[shincheckin]

I noticed a lot of mma influenced/western Muay Thai is just kickboxing to me lol.
Saenchai I feel like is not mma influenced but he’s a good example of a muay femur style.

I’m not sure how relevant this is but I like watching illias ennahachis sparring videos on ig

I like watching this guy too. He originally fights Muay Thai but I think he’s been getting into mma now

lol yes exactly, every mma gyms striking class is labeled as MT now a days.

Regarding Saenchai, yean Id no way try to say hes influenced by MMA. I would say his style has a muay boran influence, hes the one who was able to bring back and actually use some of those "monkey climbs the tree" or what not techniques. I got to spar with him at a seminar. Hes insanely fast.

you see guys are cross training, or fighting both MT and MMA now a days. A old friend of mine told he me he "got sucked into MMA".

lol that vid, dude looked like he was doing partner drills at first he was hitting him so many times, those kicks to the rear leg add up quickly.

Muay Thai is great but it has its weaknesses. Awesome thing is now that the whole world is exposed to other martial arts through youtube etc. its alot easier to learn the information, and incorporate it into whatever striking base you have. So although you may not cross train it, you can still study it, and the knowledge/information is there, whereas in the no internet days, it was not. I like the IG Tekkickboxing

https://www.instagram.com/tekkickboxing/reels/?hl=en

 

[aerius]

I think the elusive style of fighting is better. A example of this would be the much less experienced haggerty with a elusive style beating the much more experienced Sam A with his more stationary style

That's not really a good example considering that 1) Sam-A is a pretty mobile fighter and has a movement based style, and 2) he was nearly 10 years past his best before date by the time that fight happened. Also, Superlek who has a very stationary style beat the crap out of Haggerty and finished him while barely getting out of 1st gear.

A much better example of a mobile fighter beating an opponent with a stationary walk-down style is the Sam-A vs. Superlek rematch. Rounds 3 & 4 is Sam-A demonstrating how to fight on the retreat while landing the harder cleaner strikes.

 

[StopDucking]

If you look at the very best muay thai fighters (Samart, Somrak, Oley, Saenchai), they only move when they need to move. They will react to punches by moving their heads out of the way but they surely won't preemtively use head movement when no punches are thrown. The same goes with their footwork: they will take just the right number of steps to be in a good position, not bounce all over the place and gas themselves out.

It's not about being stationary, it's about eliminating unecessary movements.

 

[shincheckin]

That's not really a good example considering that 1) Sam-A is a pretty mobile fighter and has a movement based style, and 2) he was nearly 10 years past his best before date by the time that fight happened. Also, Superlek who has a very stationary style beat the crap out of Haggerty and finished him while barely getting out of 1st gear.

A much better example of a mobile fighter beating an opponent with a stationary walk-down style is the Sam-A vs. Superlek rematch. Rounds 3 & 4 is Sam-A demonstrating how to fight on the retreat while landing the harder cleaner strikes.

I don't agree with Sam A being a movement based fighter. Perhaps he is in the context of MT. But not in the sense that I am speaking of compared to the way the fighters move in the first videos I had posted. They move much more.

I see your point in regards to haggerty losing to superlek, a stationary style winning. And plenty more stationary style fighters will continue to do so. As previously pointed out, the thais are dominant this way.

Worth mentioning that just because fighter A beat fighter B, and fighter C beat fighter A, doesn't mean fighter C can beat fighter B.

Regardless of what other factors can be brought up in my previous post in regards to age or him losing to someone else in a different fight. I'll stand by my statements in regards to THAT specific fight, we see someone with a more movement based style then Sam A, AND....much much less experience actually beat Sam A. Something I didn't see happening.

it's nuts for someone that much less experienced to even fight Sam A let alone win. I credit that to his skill and style, however I would agree there's other factors at play like his age as you mentioned. I don't feel those factors take anything away given the experience difference. Sure it was a older Sam A, but it's still Sam A, and he was still way less experienced.

At the end of the day a much less experienced fighter beat Sam A. Style, skill, age, height, all play a factor, I'm sure we can find more.
Haggerty losing to superlek is irrelevant to the outcome of his fight with Sam A.