Good analysis on why it seems like Jons has been slowing down

xP said:
people saying steroids, you honestly think Jon isn't still doing whatever he wants? this is jon fucking jones.

Jones game isn't evolving.

His wrestling and clinch are excellent but his takedowns and clinch entries are not up to par anymore.

His boxing is bad always has been and has never improved. his defense relies on his size/reach/reflexes with his durability and calm under fire to fall back on. Anytime someone is willing to go after Jones they can hit him these days. His last three opponents have all landed head kicks on him and landed strikes while he was retreating and landed good counters on him. Yes, even Anthony Smith did these these things in between getting the shit kicked out of him.

his striking offense is good and he's creative but there is enough tape on him to where it's becoming predictable. and he's pretty risk averse nowadays so he's not as willing to just let that shit go.

Jon is an incredible talent and if he was with a better camp he could still be improving, but he's stagnating and just riding on his talent and the game he's built up. but that game is being slowly chipped away. Still going to be hard to beat him. You have to either knock him out or shut him out Usman/Woodley style because you aren't winning a competitive decision.
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Those are very good points man, really.

Would you say that this is the reason why Jose Aldo has been regressing as well? (He has a comparable number of fights and is pretty much the same age).
 
Ironnik94 said:
Those are very good points man, really.

Would you say that this is the reason why Jose Aldo has been regressing as well? (He has a comparable number of fights and is pretty much the same age).
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Not quite. I think they're similar in that their games are being figured out and they're older so they don't have as much dip on their chip, but there are some big differences.

I think Aldo kept improving his game over the last five+ years. He was seeking out pro boxers to improve his boxing game with, showing some new things in his game.
I think he's just in a much deeper division of highly talented killers. If Jones tried to do the same thing he's doing at LHW at FW then he would have been beat some time ago. Hell, Max wasn't even champ that long and he had one sort of uninspiring performance and someone came in with an perfect gameplanning performance against him.

FWIW, I hold Aldo in higher regard than Jones in the goat conversation. A majority probably disagree with that though.
 
TR1 said:
Nice, one can and one guy who achieved nothing at LHW and was on his way out.
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One guy is a champ in one and the other is credited with taking MMA to new heights
 
Do better said:
One guy is a champ in one and the other is credited with taking MMA to new heights
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LOL what does that even mean? Credited for what, a shitty brawlfest on TUF? Meaningless.

Vera fought absolutely nobodies in ONE, and lost to the first guy with a wiki page.
 
TR1 said:
LOL what does that even mean? Credited for what, a shitty brawlfest on TUF? Meaningless.

Vera fought absolutely nobodies in ONE, and lost to the first guy with a wiki page.
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There is a world beyond the UFC, just because you don't know their name means nothing. Your Bonnar point is so unbelievably categorically false that continuing a discussion with you would have less benefit to me than running onto a highway blindfolded with my hands in my pocket.
 
A lot of assumptions being made. Disagree with that analysis almost entirely.

He says Fedor declined because of age but that can’t be happening to Jones. Fedor was how old when he lost to Werdum? He’s about the same age as Jones now.
 
xP said:
people saying steroids, you honestly think Jon isn't still doing whatever he wants? this is jon fucking jones.

Jones game isn't evolving.

His wrestling and clinch are excellent but his takedowns and clinch entries are not up to par anymore.

His boxing is bad always has been and has never improved. his defense relies on his size/reach/reflexes with his durability and calm under fire to fall back on. Anytime someone is willing to go after Jones they can hit him these days. His last three opponents have all landed head kicks on him and landed strikes while he was retreating and landed good counters on him. Yes, even Anthony Smith did these these things in between getting the shit kicked out of him.

his striking offense is good and he's creative but there is enough tape on him to where it's becoming predictable. and he's pretty risk averse nowadays so he's not as willing to just let that shit go.

Jon is an incredible talent and if he was with a better camp he could still be improving, but he's stagnating and just riding on his talent and the game he's built up. but that game is being slowly chipped away. Still going to be hard to beat him. You have to either knock him out or shut him out Usman/Woodley style because you aren't winning a competitive decision.
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Great post.
 
Do better said:
There is a world beyond the UFC, just because you don't know their name means nothing. Your Bonnar point is so unbelievably categorically false that continuing a discussion with you would have less benefit to me than running onto a highway blindfolded with my hands in my pocket.
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In other words, you have nothing of note to argue.
Bonnar was always a middling fighter at best, and Vera never did anything at LHW.

Trying to boost the Vera win because he won a meaningless title in ONE, lmao, that is a new one.
 
xP said:
Not quite. I think they're similar in that their games are being figured out and they're older so they don't have as much dip on their chip, but there are some big differences.

I think Aldo kept improving his game over the last five+ years. He was seeking out pro boxers to improve his boxing game with, showing some new things in his game.
I think he's just in a much deeper division of highly talented killers. If Jones tried to do the same thing he's doing at LHW at FW then he would have been beat some time ago. Hell, Max wasn't even champ that long and he had one sort of uninspiring performance and someone came in with an perfect gameplanning performance against him.

FWIW, I hold Aldo in higher regard than Jones in the goat conversation. A majority probably disagree with that though.
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Yeah, good points again, you're probably right.

I think it's fair you hold Aldo in higher regards, considering he has never popped, although that incident with the urine test seems suspect.
I definitely agree on featherweight being stacked, especially in recent years, where featherweights get closer to average sized people.
 
x__stylez__x said:
More like not on the ......

giphy.gif
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Over the top?
 
When Jones was coming up, he was a genetic freak with crazy length and reflexes plus a solid wrestling background. At the time, lhw was ran by a declining "old guard" consisting of dudes in their mid-late 30's, all with tons of mileage and injuries.

His only win against another elite young gun before the title was Bader, and it's safe to say at this point that Bader wouldn't really hit his stride for many years, and honestly is still not UFC caliber.

After getting the belt, his first young up-and-comer was Gus, and that was a heavily contentious fight where Jones took more damage than his opponent.

After that, he started going through his personal troubles and fought once a year for the next 5 years: glover (who was almost 40), cormier (a close fight against another late 30's who he had substantial height and reach on), OSP (who's never been elite and was a tune up fight), and Cormier again (who is obviously even older now, and Jones popped for steroids).

Afterwards, he faces the ghost of Gustaffson and them two MW (one of which arguably beat him) before Reyes.

Fact is, Jones has rarely had to fight another young athletic fighter, and the couple times he has, he was proven very mortal. He's just simply not that skilled in the technical realm (at least compared to other champs), relying on his physical advantages to win fights.
 
Blanqa Blanqua said:
<36>

How am I even half way mad? I just asked TS a simple question. lol

Whereas you...

lol went from hard to triggered real quick just cos I PWND you in that other thread lol

{<BJPeen}



<24>
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Ignore that dude, he's a headcase.
 
NationWideNinja said:
Dude gets caught three times by USADA. Performances start becoming worse after he seemingly starts fighting clean. The logical conclusion here would be that the lack of roids is the cause, would it not? But somehow apparently people are mad when calling out the GIANT ELEPHANT in the room.
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Yeah , I mean it's not like battle damage adds up after fighting killers for 13 years.....or people age or anything.

And for the record I'm not saying I think Jones never took a performance enhancer. What I'm saying is all of these guys are. Just ask Keith Kizer of the NSAC how suspicious GSP's camp acted when they proposed enhanced testing for the Hendricks fight. Wanting to know exactly what was being tested for, and exact dates of testing...
 
you guys make it way more complicated than it really is.
 
TheToqueville said:
Yeah , I mean it's not like battle damage adds up after fighting killers for 13 years.....or people age or anything.

And for the record I'm not saying I think Jones never took a performance enhancer. What I'm saying is all of these guys are. Just ask Keith Kizer of the NSAC how suspicious GSP's camp acted when they proposed enhanced testing for the Hendricks fight. Wanting to know exactly what was being tested for, and exact dates of testing...
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Battle damage does add up, but Jon looks worse in almost every aspect of his game; strength, grappling, takedowns, confidence, speed, etc.

Not to mention that maybe everyone is doing it, but Jon while one of the richest guys on the roster, constantly gets caught, really makes you think the level of shit hes on. Surely if the rest of the roster can not get caught, he would have no issues keeping that under wraps? Unless hes either extremely stupid, or hes taking that stronggg good shit.
 
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