Goats should be confined to their weight class, p4p is more speculative than weight class goat,

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by ClosetVitorFan, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. ClosetVitorFan Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Gsp is the WW goat, Anderson is the mW goat, Jones the LHw goat, fedor or Stipe the Hw goat, Khabib the Lw goat, anybody else agree? Everyone goes with what is the most fresh in their minds. So of course people are saying Khabib is goat. At the end of the day, the Hw goat would beat all the lower weight class goats, minute maybe the LHw goat who is moving up. If Jones wins the Hw belt, he can be the arguable Hw and LHw goat! Which makes a bigger case for p4p goat. So going forward, while describing the goat, clarify the weight class,
     
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  2. kingghidrah Green Belt

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    Ok then it's settled. Khamzat is the p4p GOAT
     
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  3. SeattleFightFan Steel Belt

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    sigh
     
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  4. Dutchbawz Blue Belt

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    Mighty mouse might be the smallest goat oat.
     
  5. r-harper-1 Silver Belt

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    Do you know what P4P means ?
     
  6. Dave Poodle Brown Belt

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    It is definitely clearer when focusing on one division. Still, we have fighters like Anderson and BJ who had success in multiple divisions which can muddy the conversation.
     
  7. BRASIL WAND ▓▓▓AMERICAN TOP TEAM▓▓▓

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    Nope... GOAT = Greatest Of All Time


    Not Greatest per weight class, greatest per style, greatest per personality, etc... it devalues and runs counter to the entire meaning of the word.



    Khabib is MMA GOAT, everyone else is fighting for second.


    <5>
     
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  8. jfrito White Belt

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    please, stipe comes nowhere near that conversation. for beating nearly 40 werdum and 40+ dc? gtfo.
     
  9. ClosetVitorFan Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    Wrong. He has two defenses. Come on, Khabib is good, damn good, even great, not the goat. Lw goat, I’ll give him that, the arbitrary line of p4p...come on.
     
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  10. cauti0n LMK

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    I agree just because theres no set criteria for deciding such things when you remove the weight class barriers.

    Basically people are more biased once you do that.
     
  11. BEATDOWNS Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    The GOAT transcends weigh classes

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. ClosetVitorFan Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    That’s exactly why I’m
    when you confine it to weight classes, it leads to less speculation. Honestly the case for Khabib being the Lw goat is solid. But overall goat? No. Jones has 15 defenses and is also undefeated. He’s also going to heavyweight to challenge himself. Is Khabib the better person? Yes, hands down. But Jones p4p goat, idk, he’s more impressive.
     
  13. laleggenda27 Brown Belt

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    The existence of weight classes is an implicit acknowledgement that bigger fighters are better than smaller fighters. To then use the made-up concept of p4p to argue that the smaller fighter is better than the bigger fighter is circular and ridiculous.
     
  14. cauti0n LMK

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    I don't really agree with this as a whole but people don't take into consideration what a fighter gains or loses across weight classes... The whole "if they were the same size" thing is a moot point. They wouldn't be the same fighter. Lol.
     
  15. Sweater of AV Gold Belt

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    Fedor
    Shogun
    Saku
    Saku
    BJ
    Aldo
    Kid
    MM
     
  16. laleggenda27 Brown Belt

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    What exactly are you disagreeing with?
     
  17. Mohawk Banditó Black Belt

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    I agree, but it should also be clearly defined for the people who don't understand that p4p and goat are two different things. You can argue a p4p ranking like what UFC does across divisions as long as it keeps changing to reflect "at the moment" but it would (fairly) vary too much to matter to anyone.

    Ex: Jones could be the active GOAT, but Khabib is the currently better p4p guy considering their performances with the recency bias that you're supposed to use for divisional rankings.

    There's divisional rankings, divisional goats, p4p rankings, and p4p goats. Find your level of subjectivity from there, but division specific arguments seem to just be more simple
     
  18. cauti0n LMK

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    Some. Bigger fighters are better than smaller ones but the inverse can also be true. Depends what fighters are being compared.
     
  19. Dave Poodle Brown Belt

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    I'd certainly have Jones as clear GOAT if he didn't have so many PED fuck ups, he muddied the waters there himself. Everyone's going to have their own opinion in that though.
     
  20. laleggenda27 Brown Belt

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    Again, weight classes were created as an acknowledgement that smaller fighters can't compete with the best large fighters. Arguing that a LW is the GOAT is pretty ridiculous and circular when you realize that, fundamentally, the LW division only exists because asking a LW to compete against fighters from heavier weight classes isn't fair. Khabib gets murdered by Jones. MM gets murdered by DC. GSP gets murdered by Stipe. The concept of p4p is a silly carryover from boxing.
     

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