Elections Go Joe Biden!

[IGIT]

I don't understand anyone picking Joe. The guy literally couldn't remember Obamas name.

hi method115,

sure.

but then again, i can't see anyone supporting a POTUS who uses a sharpie to change the reality of science.

i've given up on giving the typical US voter more credit than they deserve.

- IGIT

 

[MikeMcMann]

I see so much wrong with this but I want to understand the thinking first. Where do you see this going? So let's say a real "political revolution" candidate wins, then what? We suffer 4 years of Trump and all the damage that comes with his victory to see the Sanders agenda get torpedo'd in the Senate?

You are not getting the Sanders agenda with Biden. You are getting more of the same status quo slow gutting of the middle class. Gov't has become an All You Can Eat shit buffet and if the party backers have their way you will have nothing to chose from other than the rubbery shit that you have to chew for a while or the runny shit you can quickly.

So you either say 'I have no power, the system will never reflect my views, so I will again hold my nose and vote for another Hilary type as she is better than the alternative' or you, the voters say NO, we reject that forced and very deliberate choice knowing if we concede that, that is the only thing you will feed us forever.

the only candidates with as high negatives as Trump was Hilary but hey Dem's grab that nose and vote her in as you have no choice and you must vote the lesser of two evils...right?

Ummm no, not right. Fuck it and let it burn if that is the only way we will get choice. The Reublican party had to be broken by Trump and from that I can actually see real change coming if the economy dips and they are routed in another Blue wave similar to the midterms. Hopefully the Dem party learns the lessons and does not need to be broken at that level too before change can be forced but I doubt that to be the case. I think the Dem's will also have to be completely broken. And that path, as I see it, is if they run Biden, Trump wins again and implements his horrendous agenda of gutting the middle class and environment for the rich and corporations and he causes a true populist peoples uprising that pushes a true change agenda in the Dem party the higher ups cannot stop.

 

[kpt018]

I agree with almost all of this post.

The democrat party is dead and hanging on only due to support from the donor class that it serves. They have the media and also to a large extent the DNC so maybe they can pull this off but I am thinking their time is short.

It would be a relief to be rid of Trump but how long can you ride that relief train when the things that got him elected in the first place don't change?

Ill take an economically progressive candidate who wants us out of endless wars and is not beholden to greed and money any day over establishment garbage even with the senate the way it is. It matters little weather Bernie or Elizabeth can get the policies done that they want implemented. Bernie has already spoken clearly about being realistic should he become president. He will fight tooth and nail for every penny that he can. He will use the bully pulpit to activate the voters and pressure the senate and he will get more good done than Biden in every area.

Also consider the policies that WONT get implemented under Bernie or Elizabeth. The backroom deals with wall street and the wealthy that wont happen with them in office. We must consider sins of omission and not just commission.

There is also the change in national discourse over progressive thought that will happen, the legitimization of progressive policies that will reach the ears of millions due to a progressive president (especially Bernie who seems very aware of that need should he win).

Bernie and Elizabeth will change the minds and hearts of many due to not being corrupt tools whose priority is the wealthy over the average person.

I think you should also be open to the possibility that their failure to get policy passed will result in a repudiation of progressive ideas. If you're a big Bernie or Warren (I personally think Warren is great) supporter we should understand the odds of flipping the Senate are not good and even with a D majority the really progressive stuff will still be an uphill battle. Those two are selling themselves on big changes and a failure to get them done could make them unpopular, one term presidents.

 

[IGIT]

I think everyone here knows my disdain for Trump.

That said I was happy that he beat Hilary and still am.

hiya MiceMcMann,

you know the only thing stopping Mr. Trump from enacting some of his more lunatic proposals are the courts?

well, the district courts now have 53 Trump appointed judges that they didn't have in 2016.
the appellate courts now have 34 Trump appointed judges that they didn't have before 2016.
the SCOTUS has 2, young (relatively speaking) Trump appointed judges that they didn't have before 2016.

you're to be saddled with these justices and their worldview until your teeth are falling out and become incontinent.

- IGIT

 

[method115]

hi method115,

sure.

but then again, i can't see anyone supporting a POTUS who uses a sharpie to change the reality of science.

i've given up on giving the typical US voter more credit than they deserve.

- IGIT

Agreed but at this point picking Biden is just to big of a gamble. The real primaries haven't even started and he's already said so much crazy stuff about poor kids being just as smart as white kids. Forgetting Obama's name. There's so much more on top of that. I can't trust this guy to go out there and not fuck up when Trump is making fun of him. My main concern isn't that people will prefer Trump over him it's that people wont care and wont bother voting.

Seeing as how every single Dem is polling better than Trump I don't see any reason to support Biden.

 

[franklinstower]

I think you should also be open to the possibility that their failure to get policy passed will result in a repudiation of progressive ideas. If you're a big Bernie or Warren (I personally think Warren is great) supporter we should understand the odds of flipping the Senate are not good and even with a D majority the really progressive stuff will still be an uphill battle. Those two are selling themselves on big changes and a failure to get them done could make them unpopular, one term presidents.

No doubt but Bernie has spoken about using the presidency to build and further the whole revolution. He does not think of it as the end goal of the movement but as the beginning. He is thinking long term.

 

[kpt018]

You are not getting the Sanders agenda with Biden. You are getting more of the same status quo slow gutting of the middle class. Gov't has become an All You Can Eat shit buffet and if the party backers have their way you will have nothing to chose from other than the rubbery shit that you have to chew for a while or the runny shit you can quickly.

Yes, I understand that there are material policy differences. But in the end I don't believe Sanders would get his big stuff done even if he wins.

So you either say 'I have no power, the system will never reflect my views, so I will again hold my nose and vote for another Hilary type as she is better than the alternative' or you, the voters say NO, we reject that forced and very deliberate choice knowing if we concede that, that is the only thing you will feed us forever.

the only candidates with as high negatives as Trump was Hilary but hey Dem's grab that nose and vote her in as you have no choice and you must vote the lesser of two evils...right?

No, I strongly disagree with this. There are massive differences between Hillary or Biden (or anyone D candidate really) and Trump. They are much better on the environment, our foreign policy is a disaster under Trump, his response to natural disasters is disgraceful, he's politicizing courts and DOJ, on and on and on. He'd torpedo the country in the long term if it helped him win another election. I'm not being dramatic when I say our democracy is at stake (he is open about accepting foreign influence in 2020 if available).

I think you are really underestimating the damage Trump is doing and overstating what you think Bernie/Warren could accomplish.

Ummm no, not right. Fuck it and let it burn if that is the only way we will get choice. The Reublican party had to be broken by Trump and from that I can actually see real change coming if the economy dips and they are routed in another Blue wave similar to the midterms. Hopefully the Dem party learns the lessons and does not need to be broken at that level too before change can be forced but I doubt that to be the case. I think the Dem's will also have to be completely broken. And that path, as I see it, is if they run Biden, Trump wins again and implements his horrendous agenda of gutting the middle class and environment for the rich and corporations and he causes a true populist peoples uprising that pushes a true change agenda in the Dem party the higher ups cannot stop.

The Republican party, which was bad my entire life, is getting much worse. Maybe 30 years from know they'll be destroyed and we can look back and say Trump at least gave us that but it's also possible his fucking son runs in 2024 (and could win) and the party becomes more and more Trumpy. So they're the party of shitty economics, no ideas, focus on redistribution of wealth but with all the racism and stupidity of Trump.

It seems like you're not considering that the wrecking ball strategy can make things much worse. I really wouldn't assume that destroying our political systems makes things better. And btw, populism sucks in all forms not just on the right.

 

[kpt018]

No doubt but Bernie has spoken about using the presidency to build and further the whole revolution. He does not think of it as the end goal of the movement but as the beginning. He is thinking long term.

Bernie is a 150 years old though.

 

[IGIT]

hiya method115,

Agreed but at this point picking Biden is just to big of a gamble. The real primaries haven't even started and he's already said so much crazy stuff about poor kids being just as smart as white kids. Forgetting Obama's name. There's so much more on top of that. I can't trust this guy to go out there and not fuck up when Trump is making fun of him. My main concern isn't that people will prefer Trump over him it's that people wont care and wont bother voting.

this is Joe BIden. its not age related, lol. he's been this way for decades upon decades. he will say things that cause discomfort and unhappiness.

then again, so does our POTUS - as he did in the 2016 primaries and in the 2016 general.

does it matter? did it matter?

Seeing as how every single Dem is polling better than Trump I don't see any reason to support Biden.

its easy to poll well against the POTUS in the primary - afterall, one is running against one's fellow democrats, breathing fire, sating the base.

i believe it might be more difficult to do so when running against him specifically.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

Yes, I understand that there are material policy differences. But in the end I don't believe Sanders would get his big stuff done even if he wins.



No, I strongly disagree with this. There are massive differences between Hillary or Biden (or anyone D candidate really) and Trump. They are much better on the environment, our foreign policy is a disaster under Trump, his response to natural disasters is disgraceful, he's politicizing courts and DOJ, on and on and on. He'd torpedo the country in the long term if it helped him win another election. I'm not being dramatic when I say our democracy is at stake (he is open about accepting foreign influence in 2020 if available).

I think you are really underestimating the damage Trump is doing and overstating what you think Bernie/Warren could accomplish.


The Republican party, which was bad my entire life, is getting much worse. Maybe 30 years from know they'll be destroyed and we can look back and say Trump at least gave us that but it's also possible his fucking son runs in 2024 (and could win) and the party becomes more and more Trumpy. So they're the party of shitty economics, no ideas, focus on redistribution of wealth but with all the racism and stupidity of Trump.

It seems like you're not considering that the wrecking ball strategy can make things much worse. I really wouldn't assume that destroying our political systems makes things better. And btw, populism sucks in all forms not just on the right.

heyo kpt018,

good stuff, kpt018. lucidly put.

- IGIT

 

[franklinstower]

Bernie is a 150 years old though.

I did not know I was talking to a clown. Unless I am missing the sarcasm here........

 

[waiguoren]

Stop trolling.

Biden's visible decline is no where near Trump's.

The change from younger Trump to this Trump is stark. Heck even the change from Candidate Trump to POTUS Trump is stark. It is clear the stress of the office and his likely struggling businesses, is having a significant impact on him.

There is a better video than this that i cannot find right now that just shows a collection of video snippets over the years with Trump responding to things and the decline, the lack of dexterity cannot be denied.

Find me a clip of Trump's brain failing that comes close to Biden forgetting Obama's name.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

Maybe we need an aging smooth brain candidate to defeat an aging smooth brain incumbent. Fight fire with fire as the saying goes.

 

[IGIT]

hi again Cunningham,

Weird. You just said a few posts up that you thought I supported their policies....

and i do.

Were you... Trolling?

nope.

you're a Tulsi fan, if i remember correctly. at least you were until i pointed out what her policy proposals were, right?

if i've gotten you mixed up with another poster, i apologize.

- IGIT

 

[kpt018]

I did not know I was talking to a clown. Unless I am missing the sarcasm here........

Chill, it was a joke but with a point. You said Bernie is thinking long-term but he doesn't have enough time left on the clock to carry out a long-term plan like dramatically reforming our political system. If he served two terms he'd have to live until 86 man.

 

[franklinstower]

Chill, it was a joke but with a point. You said Bernie is thinking long-term but he doesn't have enough time left on the clock to carry out a long-term plan like dramatically reforming our political system. If he served two terms he'd have to live until 86 man.

Chilled. Bernie is thinking long term selflessly. He is building a movement not a name brand. He legitimately did not even want to run the first time and only did after he could not get Elizabeth to do so. Bernie is the real deal on many levels that most people are not even considering.

 

[IGIT]

hello nostradumbass,

Wait, you consider raising your taxes to be a selling point?

on the wealthy? on the top 1%?

sure.

Maybe you should let middle America speak for themselves. You also have no idea who Biden would nominate for the supreme court.

i'm posting on a political subforum on an MMA site. i think the stakes are pretty low here, lighten up.

- IGIT

 

[method115]

hiya method115,



this is Joe BIden. its not age related, lol. he's been this way for decades upon decades. he will say things that cause discomfort and unhappiness.

then again, so does our POTUS - as he did in the 2016 primaries and in the 2016 general.

does it matter? did it matter?

For Republicans? No. Biden isn't trying to get the Republican vote he's trying to get the Dem vote. While Republicans had no issue voting for someone like Trump I think it's a bad idea to go ahead and assume Dems will do the same with Biden.

its easy to poll well against the POTUS in the primary - afterall, one is running against one's fellow democrats, breathing fire, sating the base.

i believe it might be more difficult to do so when running against him specifically.

- IGIT

Your right but at the end of the day the last thing we need is another president going out there and saying stupid stuff. Are we trying to repair our reputation with the international community or really look like a joke with both Biden and Trump saying stupid stuff on national TV?

 

[kpt018]

Chilled. Bernie is thinking long term selflessly. He is building a movement not a name brand. He legitimately did not even want to run the first time and only did after he could not get Elizabeth to do so. Bernie is the real deal on many levels that most people are not even considering.

Well, ok, but that just brings me back to my original point. If he's going to start something big, let's call it - a revolution (chill again man, I'm kidding), he's going to have to get some shit done. I suspect that he will not start a revolution if he serves 4 years with no major policy achievements because either McConnell is still in charge or Dems have a razor thin majority and can't agree on pulling the plug on a $3T industry, for example. If that happens I'd further guess it does more damage to left wing causes.

And I get that you and guys like @MikeMcMann have deep skepticism of establishment Democrats. But the reality is this county has a lot of conservatives and moderates and they're not that woke. That gets reflected in Congress. And there's no conspiracy to crush Bernie, lot's of people just aren't progressive.

 

[MikeMcMann]

hiya MiceMcMann,

you know the only thing stopping Mr. Trump from enacting some of his more lunatic proposals are the courts?

well, the district courts now have 53 Trump appointed judges that they didn't have in 2016.
the appellate courts now have 34 Trump appointed judges that they didn't have before 2016.
the SCOTUS has 2, young (relatively speaking) Trump appointed judges that they didn't have before 2016.

you're to be saddled with these justices and their worldview until your teeth are falling out and become incontinent.

- IGIT

I understand the Trump threat. And so do the Dem elite backers and they are counting on that fact, that you will eat endless Hilary type status quo politicians if they give you only that choice.

They are literally putting people to the gambit of 'f*ck you, I dare you to not support Hillary or 'X' and end with Trump' and that will continue FOREVER if its not rejected.