GNP Defense from Guard

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Shioda, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. Shioda

    Shioda Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    I've seen a lot of guys getting gnp'd from someone in their guard. I've never had too much problem with it myself, but I'm seeing it increasingly in the pro fights. Fedor, Gomi, Sanchez, Leben, Lindland, Couture, etc. These guys don't go for subs as often which makes them harder to sweep or catch them in a sub. When I watch these fights, I just wonder what would I do if I was in their place. If you had to coach Mirko for a rematch, what advice would you give him for defending his guard?

    Obviously these guys are good wrestlers, and are very skilled at what they do, but what do you think the best defense to this strategy is, other than hold tight and hope for a stand-up.
     
  2. Half Boston Crab

    Half Boston Crab Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,879
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Lund, SWEDEN
    You've gotta clinch them up really tight and don't give them distance to strike. It's harder to control the opponent from the guard if you're not wearing a gi, you've got to close the distance more. That's the only advice I can give.
     
  3. TheHighlander

    TheHighlander Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,213
    Likes Received:
    1
    Mirko just needs to learn the triangle. But to answer your question, you have to either keep them very close or too far away to hit you. Clinch up with a tight head and arm and wait for the Ref or put both feeth on the hips, shove off and return to standing while covering your head.
     
  4. Brazilian HKD

    Brazilian HKD Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    796
    Location:
    Sao Paulo, Brazil (now in MA)
    yup, be very close (close guard) or try to be as far as you can (open guard )
     
  5. alexgncw

    alexgncw Guest

    don't let them posture up thats key keep them very close to you if they can't get any distance or stand up ... also look to catch their hand as they strike and turn into an upside down arm bar, arm crush or triangle i'm sure you're not going against fedor so you should be able to pull off a sub as they strike, if they try to stand up go right for their legs and sweep into a leg lock
     
  6. Enron Exec.

    Enron Exec. Guest

    clinch them and go for the Kimura. Not to do the Kimura but tomake them stand then you stand or do the Kimura sweep
     
  7. I-Shoji

    I-Shoji Green Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    San Antonio TX.
    The best thing to do if you are worried about someone's power and he has good GnP in your guard and doesn't get careless and let you sub him is to keep his head pulled down, tie up his arms and don't let him create distance to throw punches. now you need to start working on sweeping and getting busy with your legs.

    A lot of people overlook their leg-techniques from the guard. Mirko needed to spend a lot more time working on sweeps. watch joe Dirkson's fight with Linland for a good example in lowerbody mechanics from the guard.

    Getting a good overhook on one arm and underhook on the other, and a half or full butterfly guard on someone is an excellent way to start fucking with his base and neutralizing his punching.
     
  8. TJS

    TJS Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,314
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    as others have said, the general rule of thumb is keep them really close or really far away.
     
  9. GCSD Fighter

    GCSD Fighter Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    8,183
    Likes Received:
    1
    Some of the stuff here will lead you to getting your face smashed in unless perfected.
    If you keep away, extend hips, create as much distance then heel kick the opponent's face.
    My other fave, make them off balance by pushing their hips with your feet then go for armbar. No directly from guard but to the side.
     
  10. ShadowNINku

    ShadowNINku SANDBAGGER BELT

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    The SnP OG House
    bob and weave like silva vs. arona when he was in the guard....we actually dis this in open guard in class
     
  11. migo**

    migo** Guest

    Don't be stupid, he knows the triangle.
     
  12. Coleman

    Coleman White Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    BC Canada
    It obviously isn't as easy as it looks to defend strikes from the gaurd or GnP wouldn't be so effective in mma. It's weird, watching TUF the other day I was almost screaming at some of the guys who were missing what looked to be really easy submissions but I guess it's hard to judge until you are in that position.

    For example, last night I just caught a bit of an mma fight which I think was TUF but I wasn't sure. This white guy was fighting a black guy and had his back. The black guys neck was sticking up in the air wide open yet the other guy just kept punching him and finally lost the black guys back. A rear naked looked so easy from that position.
     
  13. alexgncw

    alexgncw Guest

    another good method is use the arm drag after dodging one of his punches and from there go str8 for their back ... if the guy is comitted to the gnp and isn't really worried about what you are doing which is very common once your opponent starts swinging wildly during the gnp you should be able to take their back easily (again this is effective against someone who isn't trained in grappling)
     
  14. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    Work your sprawl hard. Don't let the opponent dictate what you do. If he likes to ground and pound, don't go to guard, but rather, fight him off his takedowns every single time.
    Wrestlers have been taking alot of decs over BJJ lately because they aren't getting caught in the guard anymore. We need to adapt or die.

    Marc Laimon teaches people to get up from the guard. Maybe this is a solution. I would say to avoid pulling guard, even if you don't get the crap kicked out of you, you will lose the dec.
     
  15. tudor_bjj

    tudor_bjj Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    1,658
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Romania
    Control his upper body. Overhook one hand, keep your head on that side, use your other hand if he's trying to hit you with the hand that you didn't overhook. Use a high guard (even rubber if you want to control him better). He creates space open your guard (many ways: my pref. - both knees on his chest or one shin almost perdpendicular on his chest)
    As for the attacks:
    - the combo: kimura, guillotine, hip-heist sweep, neck-crank turnover
    - bring your knees to your chest (adds also to blocking his strikes), try to control one arm at the wrist (easier when wearing gloves), bring your knee under this arm and then all the leg and attack the triangle
    - control one hand and chain armbar with the sweep (don't know the name right now - when you turn your hips as for the armbar, hook under his knee and sweep him the opposite way) by hooking one arm under his knee
    As for getting back up:
    - use the second open guard I was talking about push with both hands on his head, shrimp your hips (to your left side if left shin across his chest), bring your right foot under you and stand up (kinda hard to describe exactly the way to stand up. If you don't get it I'll try a better explanation)
    Don't forget using your heels to kick his kidneys or the sides of his legs (if the rules allowes that)
     
  16. Shioda

    Shioda Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    I agree. I think either someone needs to come up with some new strategies for the guard, or we need to start rethinking it's effectiveness (at least for sport anyway.)

    I think they should allow elbowing from the guard. It is one of your best striking weapons from that position, and to lose it is almost the kiss of death against a good wrestler. Look at Bas vs. Randleman. Bas would have been screwed under today's rules.
     
  17. TheHighlander

    TheHighlander Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,213
    Likes Received:
    1
    Original poster asked for adivce I'd give Mirko. That's it. It certainly didn't appear to be part of his game. Admittedly, it wasn't a big sample of his skill, but he looked reasonably comfortable with the armbar, so, unless he was purposely avoiding the triangle for a reason, I'd guess that he's not very comfortable with it...i.e. that he may not really know it very well, especially considering that he's not that experienced on the ground yet.
     
  18. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    The guard is great against a guy who has no idea what a triangle is or an arm-bar, but let's be real: A well trained gnp man knows all about these subs!
     
  19. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    Look at the recent losses by Doerksen, Salaverry, Cote and Charuto: As soon as the other guy started to gnp, the points started flowing in their favour- even if the strikes were inflicting little or no damage. This isn't because these guys suck, on the contrary they are superb grapplers- except for Cote maybe. These guys lost cuz the other guy looked busy and they were deemed to be more passive. Sweeps and sub attempts just don't get the props that elbows, hammer fists and hooks(punches) in the guard get. Judges are not about to change, so we as grapplers need to adapt.

    If we do not adapt to the gnp and neutralize it, the BJJ/Submission fighter will get pwned just like the tma'ers did in the early nhb. Survival of the fittest my freinds, belee'dat!
     
  20. migo**

    migo** Guest

    He was plenty experienced on the ground, I've never seen anyone get guard back on Fedor like that. He knows the triangle, it's a basic move, but Nog couldn't get it on Fedor, what makes you think Mirko could? Why would he go for a triangle that he 99.9999999% wouldn't get and just give Fedor a free opportunity to pass to sidemount?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.