Media (gif) JDS throwing an overhand from 10 miles out against Ngannou

[Emjay]

it didn’t appear to me that he was that hurt and could of easily gotten out of that position

lol ... And this is from a 2006 account.

 

[RoJo303]

Ngannou marks any version of JDS. People act like their favorite fighter lost all their skills when the next generation comes along and finishes them. He might have lost a step, but not enough to ever beat Ngannou.

 

[NoContest]

Looks like he got him pretty good here chief

The punch turned him into Glover Teixeira.

 

[mst-dot]

Rewatch the fight, I'm pretty confident he did rather quickly.

That was a calf kick..
No judge would score that a knock-down. He was simply of balance and definitely not rocked or fazed

 

[Danis_champ]

yeah JDS was scared. It's mental. I have experienced that myself in sparring when i was scared of my sparring partner's power and of his ability to counter

 

[boss429]

That was a calf kick..
No judge would score that a knock-down. He was simply of balance and definitely not rocked or fazed

So what you're saying is JDS did indeed drop him? I may have been wrong about the method and agree that would not have rocked him (though it certainly may have fazed him since we've seen that technique play a major role in many fights) but that doesn't change the fact he was knocked from a standing position to the ground as you originally disputed.

Cheers though, thanks for clarifying the cause of the knock down.

 

[FutureBwChamp]

Ngannou marks any version of JDS. People act like their favorite fighter lost all their skills when the next generation comes along and finishes them. He might have lost a step, but not enough to ever beat Ngannou.

Mma fans have short term memories. JDS was doing the same thing to guys as Ngannou before the 2 Cain wars. The only difference is Ngannou is more recent so there is a recency bias and he looks scarier than JDS. Go rewatch JDS murk Werdum, Gonzaga, Mir, Yvel, Cain 1, Mark Hunt and beat the hell out of Carwin and Roy Nelson. He was roasting guys, just doesnt look as scary as Ngannou or have the recency bias in his favor. JDS before the 2 Cain wars vs Francis is a pick em.

 

[boss429]

Ngannou marks any version of JDS. People act like their favorite fighter lost all their skills when the next generation comes along and finishes them. He might have lost a step, but not enough to ever beat Ngannou.

Lol, probably has something to do with the "next generation" being an inferior MMAist since he only has one path to victory. Combined with the fact JDS's reflexes have noticeably slowed considerably over the years as have his feet and hands.

Guys don't "suddenly lose their skills" but bodies due indeed break down and slow as they age and the damage absorbed over long careers adds up. JDS definitely changed after the brutal Cain losses and grueling first Stipe fight. You don't come out of fights like that in such rapid succession the same person.

Prime JDS with his speed, IQ and awareness more than likely beats Francis handily just like he did with other inferior fighters with big power like Nelson and Carwin, just like prime Crocop more than likely would have beaten him when they fought.

Age and wear and tear are a thing dude and nobody not named Mayweather is immune to their effects.

 

[RoJo303]

Mma fans have short term memories. JDS was doing the same thing to guys as Ngannou before the 2 Cain wars. The only difference is Ngannou is more recent so there is a recency bias and he looks scarier than JDS. Go rewatch JDS murk Werdum, Gonzaga, Mir, Yvel, Cain 1, Mark Hunt and beat the hell out of Carwin and Roy Nelson. He was roasting guys, just doesnt look as scary as Ngannou or have the recency bias in his favor. JDS before the 2 Cain wars vs Francis is a pick em.

You are right, MMA fans do have short memories, but Im not one of them. Yes Ngannou is the flavor of the moment, but I still maintain the sport has progressed and is producing superior athletes and technique than ten years ago. There is a big difference between murdering Overeem and Blaydes on the feet and beating Mir, Gonzaga, Werdum or young Cain on the feet (Cain also avenged x 2). I think Ngannou would have KO'd Carwin and Nelson on the feet, and owing to his size, reach, power, athleticism over JDS, would have finished young JDS too. Just MHO tho

 

[RoJo303]

Lol, probably has something to do with the "next generation" being an inferior MMAist since he only has one path to victory. Combined with the fact JDS's reflexes have noticeably slowed considerably over the years as have his feet and hands.

Guys don't "suddenly lose their skills" but bodies due indeed break down and slow as they age and the damage absorbed over long careers adds up. JDS definitely changed after the brutal Cain losses and grueling first Stipe fight. You don't come out of fights like that in such rapid succession the same person.

Prime JDS with his speed, IQ and awareness more than likely beats Francis handily just like he did with other inferior fighters with big power like Nelson and Carwin, just like prime Crocop more than likely would have beaten him when they fought.

Age and wear and tear are a thing dude and nobody not named Mayweather is immune to their effects.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. IMHO, it is a Royce type Hughes advancement in the game that is still happening owing to how young the sport is and the shallow talent pool it had prior. IMO, there was no one like Ngannou in the game back then, and Bob Sapp doesn't count. To say Francis is just a one trick pony is insincere, as he has shown grappling and subs as well.

I don't deny JDS has weathered, I do deny that I think he would likely beat Ngannou tho.

 

[ostlerrage]

he beat stipe handily the first time they fought. then pretty much threw the fight in the second. I think by that time he was damaged goods.

 

[FutureBwChamp]

You are right, MMA fans do have short memories, but Im not one of them. Yes Ngannou is the flavor of the moment, but I still maintain the sport has progressed and is producing superior athletes and technique than ten years ago. There is a big difference between murdering Overeem and Blaydes on the feet and beating Mir, Gonzaga, Werdum or young Cain on the feet (Cain also avenged x 2). I think Ngannou would have KO'd Carwin and Nelson on the feet, and owing to his size, reach, power, athleticism over JDS, would have finished young JDS too. Just MHO tho

You are right, MMA fans do have short memories, but Im not one of them. Yes Ngannou is the flavor of the moment, but I still maintain the sport has progressed and is producing superior athletes and technique than ten years ago. There is a big difference between murdering Overeem and Blaydes on the feet and beating Mir, Gonzaga, Werdum or young Cain on the feet (Cain also avenged x 2). I think Ngannou would have KO'd Carwin and Nelson on the feet, and owing to his size, reach, power, athleticism over JDS, would have finished young JDS too. Just MHO tho

Overeem while dangerously offensively has the same problem as JDS he is weathered. And Curtis Blades lol JDS knocked out much better strikers than him. The sport has evolved yes but Ngannou is not a new breed, he is just a powerhouse. JDS in his prime was a powerhouse with a chin and crazy timing.

 

[boss429]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. IMHO, it is a Royce type Hughes advancement in the game that is still happening owing to how young the sport is and the shallow talent pool it had prior. IMO, there was no one like Ngannou in the game back then, and Bob Sapp doesn't count. To say Francis is just a one trick pony is insincere, as he has shown grappling and subs as well.

I don't deny JDS has weathered, I do deny that I think he would likely beat Ngannou tho.

Fair enough, aside from the fact he really hasn't shown grappling and subs that I can recall but whatever.

You're not entirely wrong about the sport advancing, it is, there are far more complete MMAist now and soon we will see the true "evolution" when the kids who grew up training MMA as it's own martial art from a young age start coming into the sport but that time hasn't come yet.

The one division that has actually shown a devolution though is HW, hence the top 10 still being filled with guys from this "shallow talent pool" of yester year.

There have been many like Francis ( though he may be the most powerful yet) but the guy who wrote the MMA blueprint (Fedor) and the 2 undeniable top guys also competing at the time (Nog/ Crocop) where far more skilled than Francis and Crocop would have battered him standing, Nog would have subbed him after getting rocked and Fedor would have done whatever the fuck he wanted.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like Francis but he is a product of his environment and showed up at the perfect time but don't forget, it's only been a little over a year since he got dominated by a complete MMAist in his prime and a guy who goes against everything you claim about the current era (Lewis).

Comparing Hughes vs a Gracie who competed in UFC 1 and was the very definition of a 1 trick pony to Francis and JDS of 10 years ago is absolutely absurd dude and I'm pretty sure you know that.

It is always nice to be able to have a civil difference of opinion around here though so cheers to that my friend, I appreciate it but obviously cannot agree with your argument here, haha, sorry.

 

[King.]

nobody wants nuttin to do with ngannou. overeem did the same more or less. overcommit so he the fight could be stpped.

 

[mst-dot]

So what you're saying is JDS did indeed drop him? I may have been wrong about the method and agree that would not have rocked him (though it certainly may have fazed him since we've seen that technique play a major role in many fights) but that doesn't change the fact he was knocked from a standing position to the ground as you originally disputed.

Cheers though, thanks for clarifying the cause of the knock down.

You literally stated that he dropped him with an overhand.

According to your logic a takedown can be considered a knock-down.

 

[boss429]

You literally stated that he dropped him with an overhand.

According to your logic a takedown can be considered a knock-down.

Actually I didn't, I said "If I recall correctly he dropped him with a similar but slightly tighter version of that same punch" but clearly, as I admitted I did not recall correctly.

With that said though the fact still undeniably remains he dropped him with a strike which you said he didn't and you know as well as I do your last sentence there is ridiculous.

 

[cunglaowins]

What was he thinking? And then he says he wants a rematch against Ngannou lol. That was one of the worst committed telegraphed overhand rights I’ve ever seen. He even stepped forward with the punch and spun himself around just to miss by a country mile.

JDS is a super nice guy and mostly talented guy but sometimes I think he’s delusional or has a bad case of CTE.

Too much risk to get any closer.

 

[mst-dot]

Actually I didn't, I said "If I recall correctly he dropped him with a similar but slightly tighter version of that same punch" but clearly, as I admitted I did not recall correctly.

With that said though the fact still undeniably remains he dropped him with a strike which you said he didn't and you know as well as I do your last sentence there is ridiculous.

I literally just watched it again 3 times.
Dropped and dazed by a tight punch? Simply did not happen.

I was willing to admit i only watched it once and may have gotten it wrong.

But your post was not accurate. Thats just the facts sorry

 

[boss429]

I literally just watched it again 3 times.
Dropped and dazed by a tight punch? Simply did not happen.

I was willing to admit i only watched it once and may have gotten it wrong.

But your post was not accurate. Thats just the facts sorry

Pretty sure I already coincided that point in my 2nd response to you and as I said, I haven't watched the fight since it happened and was drinking at a party when I watched it live.

All I remembered was Francis going down and since I can't recall JDS ever dropping anyone with a leg kick I guess my mind just filled in the most likely cause.

At the end of the day though this debate was whether or not JDS knocked down Francis and since you clearly didn't remember either when you claimed he didn't and felt the need to not only look it up but apparently watch it 3 times I think it's safe to say both our memories failed us but regarding the subject of this debate I was in fact correct.

Should we call it a draw and walk away now or what dude? Haha

 

[Mug]

JDS is the most frustrating fighter to be a fan of