Gi Submission Grappling Tournament to find the best Gi Grappler.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by jjmuaythaiguy, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. jjmuaythaiguy

    jjmuaythaiguy Brown Belt

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    I know, I know. What the hell is jjmuaythaiguy talking about?

    Well friends, here is the short of it. Recently I was reading a thread that said a bjj tournament that had a judo blackbelt entered as a white belt for the bjj tournament. I have had my share of these "situations" where someone who was a advance belt in another gi oriented art enter as a white belt just because it was a "bjj" event and not their art.

    I say, lets change the gi events of bjj into a Gi Submission Grappling tournament put on by bjj organizers, whoever or whatever art or style. The basic rule of thumb that applies to no gi submission type events would apply to gi submission tournaments. You are a brown belt in judo, you enter as a brown belt in the gi submission tournament. You are a black belt in sambo you enter as a black belt in gi submission tournament. Why does it matter that they do not actually practice bjj. No gi submission events don't care what art you practice, we all enter don't we?

    I feel that all grappling arts have submissions in them so the why not stop isolating our arts because of the focus of the art and just make them all gi submission tournaments? Is it fair for a black belt of another art, "enter name here", to enter as a white just because it says BJJ Tournament and they don't REALLY practice bjj but something else, such as japanese jiu jitsu, judo, or sambo.

    I got a tournament coming up this Saturday and was already told that there will be a brown belt in judo that entered as a blue belt in bjj and of course probably that professional mma guy and winner of advance no gi guy will enter as blue belt against me. At least its better than the guy entering the event as a white belt like last tournament.

    Does anyone want to know who the best gi submission grappler is? Like ADCC sees who the best no gi guy is? What do you all think?
     
  2. Ashton

    Ashton Allez Cuisine!

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    I think sandbagging is gay no matter what. These guys know their level of experience and should challenge themselves accordingly. Beating up on beginners is just lame. Some of our guys have wrestled their entire lives but have only been doing BJJ for a few months. They still enter as intermediates and some advanced (no-gi).
     
  3. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    I guess the thing is that the belt colors aren't congruent across styles.

    I know guys that have trained with me for six months that can tap judo black belts. The arts focus on different things.

    A judo black belt competing as a BJJ blue belt seems fair to me.
     
  4. RedAger

    RedAger Amateur Fighter

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    or say you train with carlos newton and label yourself dragon ball z jitsu
     
  5. jjmuaythaiguy

    jjmuaythaiguy Brown Belt

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    You make a good point and I have thought about it too. I think that by making Gi Submission Grappling events equal in belt rank, the other arts will have to rethink the manner in which they award belts.

    A black belt in gi submission must be equal to other arts period. But I do understand your point. Thanks for hitting the thread.
     
  6. That wouldn't be fare to make a Judo brown belt go up against a BJJ brown belt, he'd get killed in a submission tourny. I'm a blue belt and I've tapped 2 Judo black belts on the ground (but they can still whoop my ass at takedowns). I say just go out there and give it your best, no matter who you face.
     
  7. jjmuaythaiguy

    jjmuaythaiguy Brown Belt

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    I think some judo, japanese jiu jitsu, sambo and other arts should post to see how they feel. Gi based submissions martial arts are submission based right. BJJ and sambo came from judo right - judo came from jiu jitsu right? A black belt is one of the highest rank of each art right? Why should it be so different because of the submission element?
     
  8. Ayin

    Ayin Black Belt

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    What about someone who held belts in multiple arts? A high ranking Judoka who also has a begginer ranking in Jiu-Jitsu? Why should someone with a Judo background be ranked equaly in a Jiu-Jitsu tournament as a practitioner of that art? The logic that follows is that both arts offer equal levels of ability in those fields to their students, and if so, why would anyone train Jiu-Jitsu?
    I can see what you mean by making it a submission wrestling style tournament and not a BJJ tournament, but as long as it is a BJJ funcion all that should matter is you BJJ level.
     
  9. jjmuaythaiguy

    jjmuaythaiguy Brown Belt

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    I hear what you are saying I am saying that someone should make a Gi Submission Grappling event. Anyone. Not just a BJJ based school. A common ordinary citizen who is interested in seeing who the best gi grappler is, like ADCC shows who is the best no gi guy.
     
  10. Soulfly

    Soulfly Guest

    I full on agree, JJmuaythaiguy. I was wondering why they haven't made one yet actually. I'd definetly compete.
     
  11. sakufan

    sakufan Purple Belt

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    they had one. it's called rickson gracie's budo challenge. unfortunately, only BJJ guys showed up.
     
  12. jjmuaythaiguy

    jjmuaythaiguy Brown Belt

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    I am not sure on this one but wasn't that an "invitational" as opposed to an "open" competition? Anyone who posts here and entered Rickson's tournament or knows more about this could you shed more light on it? I think Rickson picked people to enter that were high quality and proven grapplers right? It was not open to all gi grapplers if I am correct. Much like Rorion's Southern - California Pro - Am Invitational was for no gi and how ADCC is an invitational, not an open competition.
     
  13. Soulfly

    Soulfly Guest

    I think it would be cool to just have local or even regional gi grappling tournaments that arn't art based.
     
  14. jjmuaythaiguy

    jjmuaythaiguy Brown Belt

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    Me too. I mean everytime you see a thread here with BJJ is better than (enter grapplign art) here there is a lot of back an forth with people who practice grappling arts other than BJJ. I think a Gi Submission Tournament would solve a lot of that much like the UFC opened up people's eyes and minds to say what works and what does not. I know the UFC had its own agenda but hey someone thought about it and made it work.

    If someone put on a gi submission tournament and an art's students were getting schooled over and over again, then wouldn't that school be able to learn a lesson and incorporate the missing pieces to improve on it? It would be win, win for everyone. Who knows, maybe sambo would win, maybe judo? We will never know without having the event I think.
     
  15. private ryan

    private ryan Guest

    i totally agree
    so how would you rank wrestlers and guys with belts in stuff like aikido and jkd?
     
  16. jjmuaythaiguy

    jjmuaythaiguy Brown Belt

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    I think that it would follow a rule of thumb on years of training for instance:

    one year - one year and half training = white belt

    one and half - four years = blue belt

    four - seven years = purple belt

    seven - nine = brown

    nine + = black belt

    I know this is not the norm but I think this is fair for people who usually do not train with a gi on. Those that do use a gi when training have already decidied what their requirements are for black belt so they should not grumble about the non - gi users years of training to belt award.

    Of course National Champion wrestlers, aikido masters, jeet kun do champions would probably be better placed in the black belt division. It really depends but if you compete and win at the highest level and you are known as one of the best in your school or art. Then you should be ranked in a gi event accordingly.

    I met JKD Unlimited's Burt Richardson at the Hawaii BJJ Open and got to talk and take pictures with him. He puts his guys in appropriate divisions I think. Plus he got a girl named Molly that totally dominates her division so much so that she submitted a man at a NAGA event much like the video of the girl in the grappling thread.
     
  17. Soulfly

    Soulfly Guest

    Maybe qualifier competitions to see the skill level of the competitors?
     
  18. private ryan

    private ryan Guest

    so how do you deal with guys who got belts years ago but havent done a martial art in a decade but have now taken on bjj in later life?
     
  19. Soulfly

    Soulfly Guest

    What kind of a fucking question is this?
     
  20. private ryan

    private ryan Guest

    as an example i mean somebody who did judo growing up and reached brown belt status but quit at 18.
    now hes 30 and has decided he wants to start training again and picks up bjj.
    after 6 months he decides to enter a comp.
    should he be put into a brown belt status as suggested or be treated as a white belt?
     

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