GGG power

[Token7]

How to obtain the snap as seen in this video.....you see tons of professionals hit mitts and none sound and look at the level as GGG does. What's the secret?

 

[tehmvp]

How to obtain the snap as seen in this video.....you see tons of professionals hit mitts and none sound and look at the level as GGG does. What's the secret?

Years of drilling technique as perfectly as possible.

 

[NVSemin]

How to obtain the snap as seen in this video.....you see tons of professionals hit mitts and none sound and look at the level as GGG does. What's the secret?

Tyson was better.



I do not see extraordinary snap in this video of GGG, but I do see he tightens his arm very hard at the right moment during the impact (I cannot say when exactly), this makes the effect of the punch (sound in this case) more distinct. THis is the feature of GGG: he does not throw punches that fast and snappy, but he does not loose any bits of power because he forms powerline very well

 

[PivotPunch]

Tyson was better.



I do not see extraordinary snap in this video of GGG, but I do see he tightens his arm very hard at the right moment during the impact (I cannot say when exactly), this makes the effect of the punch (sound in this case) more distinct. THis is the feature of GGG: he does not throw punches that fast and snappy, but he does not loose any bits of power because he forms powerline very well

Tyson's punches seem a bit shorter and he seems overall to move a little bit faster. Golovkin seems a bit like Foreman in that he loads up more on the single punches while Tyson really throws from zero and tries to throw such that his follow up punches are as fast as each punch before. Throwing combinations was really drilled into him.

Golovkin also throws combinations but mostly he throws one big punch he loads up on and a lot of probing punches to set that punch up which is why you see him throw combinations and the opponent seems to take them well when suddenly he collapses to the floor from a real bomb.

Golovkin has handspeed as every big puncher has to some extent it's just physics but he doesn't throw full power combinations that fast so he has become really great at throwing weak probing punches and correct timing while always being in good position to set that one bomb up.

Golovkin has p4p probably more power than Tyson and there were a few HWs around with more raw power than Tyson but he was still a huge puncher (and not any huge puncher but a big punching HW) and had insane speed not only on single shots but on combinations (and overall as well).

Some boxer even claimed that he sparred Golovkin and Povetkin who is a HW with a not huge but decent punch and that Povetkin never really hrut him but Golovkin did.

Tyson had also a different body I think officially (whether that's accurate or not) Golovkin and Tyson are the same height and have the same reach. Maybe because Tyson is more muscular and because of that seems shorter but Golovkin's arms appear a bit longer which might make sense if tyson had wider shoulders.

But as the impact of a punch is weight x speed, most big puncher had to have at least some kind of handspeed along obviously with the technique to put as much weight as possible into each punch.
At least a young Foreman had handspeed as well. Thr difference between guys like Golovkin and Foreman as opposed to guys like Pacquiao and Tyson is the ability to throw not only single or 2 punches fast but to throw combinations fast which is a bit more than handspeed.

Also with golovkin you can kinda see how he subtly loads up on punches not in a big way but you can. tyson throws from zero.

Golovkin is probably the guy I try to punch like the most though despite being a Tyson fanboy. The left hook he dropped Monroe with in the beginning was for me one of the most perfect left hooks I've ever seen.

I have no concrete explanation for his power through though other than his handspeed, weight transfer/technique and being in good position to punch but that would be my explanation for literally every big puncher. I also think it's really not only physical factors but the mindset and technique, trying to punch with bad intentions really and prioritizing the ability to put power into each punch over touching the other guy without getting touched by him. which is basically the opposite of modern Mayweather.

Obviously it's also because he moved up in weight and he would never be Golovkin especially not at WW but he could most likely hit much harder if he prioritized it in his technique and threw with bad intentions but because of a.) his natural mindset b.) him not wanting to get hit at all if possible and.c) his hand issues he doesnt throw that way.

Really big punchers are probably born but I think not all of it is physical even the things that come natural for each fighter and if you put golovkin's brain into Mayweather's body then mayweather would probably punch a little bit harder even at WW

 

[shpboris]

Tyson's punches seem a bit shorter and he seems overall to move a little bit faster. Golovkin seems a bit like Foreman in that he loads up more on the single punches while Tyson really throws from zero and tries to throw such that his follow up punches are as fast as each punch before. Throwing combinations was really drilled into him.

Golovkin also throws combinations but mostly he throws one big punch he loads up on and a lot of probing punches to set that punch up which is why you see him throw combinations and the opponent seems to take them well when suddenly he collapses to the floor from a real bomb.

Golovkin has handspeed as every big puncher has to some extent it's just physics but he doesn't throw full power combinations that fast so he has become really great at throwing weak probing punches and correct timing while always being in good position to set that one bomb up.

Golovkin has p4p probably more power than Tyson and there were a few HWs around with more raw power than Tyson but he was still a huge puncher (and not any huge puncher but a big punching HW) and had insane speed not only on single shots but on combinations (and overall as well).

Some boxer even claimed that he sparred Golovkin and Povetkin who is a HW with a not huge but decent punch and that Povetkin never really hrut him but Golovkin did.

Tyson had also a different body I think officially (whether that's accurate or not) Golovkin and Tyson are the same height and have the same reach. Maybe because Tyson is more muscular and because of that seems shorter but Golovkin's arms appear a bit longer which might make sense if tyson had wider shoulders.

But as the impact of a punch is weight x speed, most big puncher had to have at least some kind of handspeed along obviously with the technique to put as much weight as possible into each punch.
At least a young Foreman had handspeed as well. Thr difference between guys like Golovkin and Foreman as opposed to guys like Pacquiao and Tyson is the ability to throw not only single or 2 punches fast but to throw combinations fast which is a bit more than handspeed.

Also with golovkin you can kinda see how he subtly loads up on punches not in a big way but you can. tyson throws from zero.

Golovkin is probably the guy I try to punch like the most though despite being a Tyson fanboy. The left hook he dropped Monroe with in the beginning was for me one of the most perfect left hooks I've ever seen.

I have no concrete explanation for his power through though other than his handspeed, weight transfer/technique and being in good position to punch but that would be my explanation for literally every big puncher. I also think it's really not only physical factors but the mindset and technique, trying to punch with bad intentions really and prioritizing the ability to put power into each punch over touching the other guy without getting touched by him. which is basically the opposite of modern Mayweather.

Obviously it's also because he moved up in weight and he would never be Golovkin especially not at WW but he could most likely hit much harder if he prioritized it in his technique and threw with bad intentions but because of a.) his natural mindset b.) him not wanting to get hit at all if possible and.c) his hand issues he doesnt throw that way.

Really big punchers are probably born but I think not all of it is physical even the things that come natural for each fighter and if you put golovkin's brain into Mayweather's body then mayweather would probably punch a little bit harder even at WW

GGG's is not fast at all IMO - probably his power is more of a product of genetics, technique and mindset.
He is slower than Alvarez, Jackobs, Lara etc - both on single punches and combinations.

 

[Perfect form]

Spoiler

In this stretch if you where to remove the supporting wall the arm would move forward. Its tension in the muscles being stretched.

The stretch is how you punch with the snap. You relax the muscles and you move your body to create the stretch then the arm follows.

Golovkin oppens up when he trows the punch, dropping back his arm you don't have to do that.

You can create heavy mass by setting your body in a better starting position relative to your opponent. If you do that you would look more like Tyson.

 

[Sinister]

Golovkin's power has little to do with his arms, and a lot to do with rotation and centering of his weight. He's not the only Eastern Bloc fighter who hits very very hard, there's a whole bunch of them, all for the same reasons.

 

[ssullivan80]

Golovkin's power has little to do with his arms, and a lot to do with rotation and centering of his weight. He's not the only Eastern Bloc fighter who hits very very hard, there's a whole bunch of them, all for the same reasons.

Well said, be interested in hearing what other nuances you could articulate about the EB style.

I know that Able Sanchez has been cited as constantly preaching "keeping his shoulders on a level plane", which is evident in the video (and from his fights) and something i've heard from more than a few EB coaches/trainers. GGG stays centered in his stance and really keeps both his hips/shoulders on a level plane, which really let's him engage all of his core and get incredible leverage on his shots. Often I think it's why many EB fighters, or that style in general, are seen as being stiff or "robotic". Yet you look at a Kovalev or GGG and they are both very upright (flat back, squared shoulders), but at the same time they are also very loose and relaxed. The posture that the EB coaches really engrain in there fighters , which is often criticised (by the untrained eye) is IMO what allows them to maintain that ideal balance and generate the kind of power they do.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

How to obtain the snap as seen in this video.....you see tons of professionals hit mitts and none sound and look at the level as GGG does. What's the secret?

I feel like a noob cuz I've never seen that kind of pad before.

 

[Perfect form]

Golovkin's power has little to do with his arms, and a lot to do with rotation and centering of his weight. He's not the only Eastern Bloc fighter who hits very very hard, there's a whole bunch of them, all for the same reasons.

Op asked about the snap so that was what I was answering to.

 

[Samuel Reynoso]

The stretch is how you punch with the snap. You relax the muscles and you move your body to create the stretch then the arm follows.

I don't think the stretch-shorting cycle has anything to do with snap. Snap happens at the target. It's how you transfer the force you've generated into the targeted over the shortest time. It's just being solid.

I do agree that GGG's left hook is a big looping hook with the bicep loaded up with transformed rotational force from the hip. I just don't agree with that being "snap".

 

[Sinister]

Well said, be interested in hearing what other nuances you could articulate about the EB style.

I know that Able Sanchez has been cited as constantly preaching "keeping his shoulders on a level plane", which is evident in the video (and from his fights) and something i've heard from more than a few EB coaches/trainers. GGG stays centered in his stance and really keeps both his hips/shoulders on a level plane, which really let's him engage all of his core and get incredible leverage on his shots. Often I think it's why many EB fighters, or that style in general, are seen as being stiff or "robotic". Yet you look at a Kovalev or GGG and they are both very upright (flat back, squared shoulders), but at the same time they are also very loose and relaxed. The posture that the EB coaches really engrain in there fighters , which is often criticised (by the untrained eye) is IMO what allows them to maintain that ideal balance and generate the kind of power they do.

Meh, so Abel is constantly preaching to a choir boy. The Russians have been keeping their shoulders level since they started addressing physiology in their training, which dates back to probably the 60's if not earlier. And yes, people confuse posture correctness with "stiffness." Their posture and control of distance dictates they only move when they need to. Compare that to his fight with Monroe Jr., and also Rosado, who moved way too much.

Op asked about the snap so that was what I was answering to.

Yes, but the snap is just ceremony. They could slap you with an open palm and little arm rotation and it'd still have their bodyweight in it. It's a very common thing, though, to look at the follow-through and highlight it's function, but the base movement is much more telling. They all have it:

 

[kenji goh]

Very interesting information guys about the EB methodology!

Golovkin's case seems special to me though. I could tell when the guys in the above video were going to throw a bomb. Golovkin's power has even less
preparatory movement and his hits are slow, with seemingly low acceleration. Yet he lands and the opponent is out. Pretty weird.

It's like what practitioners of chinese internal martial arts aim to achieve. Something like an invisible force.

 

[Sinister]

The last dude in the video was even more subtle than GGG is IMO. But Beterbiev, Krusher, guys like that are merely hyper-aggressive compared to GGG. He is and always was more measured.

 

[PivotPunch]

What do you guys mean with having the shoulders on a level plane?

 

[ssullivan80]

What do you guys mean with having the shoulders on a level plane?

Just what it sounds like. His shoulder remain level ---- and over the top of his hips, in the center of his stance. That's what allows him to get all his bodyweight behind his shots, he's not dipping his shoulders or separating his hips from his shoulders VS watch the Tyson video posted above and compare his shoulders/hips with those of GGG. Tysons hips will remain ----- but his shoulders are doing \ or / , leaning at the waist and dipping the shoulders. Yes, Tyson hit as hard as anyone ever but notice also how much more effortless GGG makes his power shots look and how much more balanced he is throughout. GGG get's much of his power through his posture (get's all his weight into his shots) and technical refinement (of course, he's got natural power as well). It's why GGG is able to move forward and put together powerful combination shot's (shifting forward punching) VS Tyson's power is more the "explosive" type of power and relied heavily on his pure athletic ability, hence why he had to get his feet set first to generate that big power.

Watch close in the videos of both Tyson and GGG, notice how GGG can come forward and change the angles as he throwing power shots VS Tyson, had to come forward, set his feet then throw shots. Watch the padholders, Able Sanchez is moving back/away as GGG is throwing shots vs. the second the padholder for Tyson backs up after he hits the pads, he's out of Tyson's range. Look closely and compare the distance between GGG/Tyson, when the padholder steps back after their shots. This is exactly why GGG is so good at cutting off the ring and walking down his opponents vs Tyson very often had to chase his opponent down or pin them on the ropes. GGG can move and punch simultaneously, and still get big power on his shots vs. Tyson had to move, set, throw

 

[PivotPunch]

Just what it sounds like. His shoulder remain level ---- and over the top of his hips, in the center of his stance. That's what allows him to get all his bodyweight behind his shots, he's not dipping his shoulders or separating his hips from his shoulders VS watch the Tyson video posted above and compare his shoulders/hips with those of GGG. Tysons hips will remain ----- but his shoulders are doing \ or / , leaning at the waist and dipping the shoulders. Yes, Tyson hit as hard as anyone ever but notice also how much more effortless GGG makes his power shots look and how much more balanced he is throughout. GGG get's much of his power through his posture (get's all his weight into his shots) and technical refinement (of course, he's got natural power as well). It's why GGG is able to move forward and put together powerful combination shot's (shifting forward punching) VS Tyson's power is more the "explosive" type of power and relied heavily on his pure athletic ability, hence why he had to get his feet set first to generate that big power.

Watch close in the videos of both Tyson and GGG, notice how GGG can come forward and change the angles as he throwing power shots VS Tyson, had to come forward, set his feet then throw shots. Watch the padholders, Able Sanchez is moving back/away as GGG is throwing shots vs. the second the padholder for Tyson backs up after he hits the pads, he's out of Tyson's range. Look closely and compare the distance between GGG/Tyson, when the padholder steps back after their shots. This is exactly why GGG is so good at cutting off the ring and walking down his opponents vs Tyson very often had to chase his opponent down or pin them on the ropes. GGG can move and punch simultaneously, and still get big power on his shots vs. Tyson had to move, set, throw

How much of that is due to styles though? Tyson was mostly dipping as part of preemptive headmovement and he naturally started from a further distance as he was fighting guys who on average had 4 inches on him.

Maybe it's the Tyson fanboy in me speaking but isn't he punching while moving at 0:35 for example and at other spots? It looks pretty similar to the small forward shuffles Golovkin does on some of his punches.

I see the shoulder thing you mention but I don't agree that tyson couldn't punch while moving granted he was a small and athletic HW but he never was unable to cut the ring off on a mover and he had many instances where he hurts an opponent while moving often also with shifts kinda like Golovkin. And it's also because of styles and Golovkin takes different more subtle angles than tyson but I see Tyson coming in at angles a ton he just takes more exaggarated angles and literally tried to almost get behind his opponents' backs.

Do you know why it makes a difference if your shoulers are level?

So do you have to chose to either simultenously slip or to have power when you punch?






Also I have a question kinda related to the topic of this thread. When hitting upwards are there any tricks? I mean far upwards. Up until the height of someone 6'3 or 6'4 I don't see a big difference but when hitting really high like I would have to do with someone 6ft 8 or so then it kinda messes with my mechanics.

The left hook feels ok, the right hook is difficult as it is the shortest punch in boxing as it is even against smaller guys but the right straight also feels weird.

One thing I notice with really shorter fighters or when just throwing punches really high is that you naturally tend to lean backwards with the knees because of the angle but is that efficient power wise or should you just remain a neutral stance and work on your shoulder mobility?
Also there's the issue of literally not seeing where you punch when you keep your neutral stance and keep your chin down. Are you allowed to lift your chin higher, should you lean back with the knees?

I just really wonder about the mechanics of punching a taller opponent. obviously at some point it might eb ltierally hard to reach the head but you always see so many threads and everything on fighting taller opponents, covering the distance and so on but rarely (never?) on the punching mechanics against someone who is not just taller but on the verge of you having trouble even reaching his head.

Funnily enough the punch with the least usage against such an opponent (unless in specific spots), the uppercut feels the most natural to throw really far upwards and little changes in the mechanics whne I throw it really far above my head.

It's also becomes harder to land with hooks to the side of the head as it robs you of even more reach (let alone a rear hook) so that they automatically tend to come more frontal to the face like an overhand, it's just weird

 

[ssullivan80]

So do you have to chose to either simultenously slip or to have power when you punch?

I'll come back to respond to the rest. However, per this question - No, so long as your shoulders remain level and you keep your weight balanced in the center of your stance you can generate power from any postion (get your weight behind your shot, shift hip to hip) with EITHER HAND, while slipping, moving, advancing, retreating, set, etc..... VS dipping your shoulders or getting your weight outside the center of your stance you can only generate real power (get your weight behind your shot) moving back to the center from the direction your weight or shoulders are shifted too. If you really think this through and grasp the concept, it'll answer the remainder of your questions.

 

[Sinister]

How much of that is due to styles though? Tyson was mostly dipping as part of preemptive headmovement and he naturally started from a further distance as he was fighting guys who on average had 4 inches on him.

Maybe it's the Tyson fanboy in me speaking but isn't he punching while moving at 0:35 for example and at other spots? It looks pretty similar to the small forward shuffles Golovkin does on some of his punches.

I see the shoulder thing you mention but I don't agree that tyson couldn't punch while moving granted he was a small and athletic HW but he never was unable to cut the ring off on a mover and he had many instances where he hurts an opponent while moving often also with shifts kinda like Golovkin. And it's also because of styles and Golovkin takes different more subtle angles than tyson but I see Tyson coming in at angles a ton he just takes more exaggarated angles and literally tried to almost get behind his opponents' backs.

Do you know why it makes a difference if your shoulers are level?

So do you have to chose to either simultenously slip or to have power when you punch?






Also I have a question kinda related to the topic of this thread. When hitting upwards are there any tricks? I mean far upwards. Up until the height of someone 6'3 or 6'4 I don't see a big difference but when hitting really high like I would have to do with someone 6ft 8 or so then it kinda messes with my mechanics.

The left hook feels ok, the right hook is difficult as it is the shortest punch in boxing as it is even against smaller guys but the right straight also feels weird.

One thing I notice with really shorter fighters or when just throwing punches really high is that you naturally tend to lean backwards with the knees because of the angle but is that efficient power wise or should you just remain a neutral stance and work on your shoulder mobility?
Also there's the issue of literally not seeing where you punch when you keep your neutral stance and keep your chin down. Are you allowed to lift your chin higher, should you lean back with the knees?

I just really wonder about the mechanics of punching a taller opponent. obviously at some point it might eb ltierally hard to reach the head but you always see so many threads and everything on fighting taller opponents, covering the distance and so on but rarely (never?) on the punching mechanics against someone who is not just taller but on the verge of you having trouble even reaching his head.

Funnily enough the punch with the least usage against such an opponent (unless in specific spots), the uppercut feels the most natural to throw really far upwards and little changes in the mechanics whne I throw it really far above my head.

It's also becomes harder to land with hooks to the side of the head as it robs you of even more reach (let alone a rear hook) so that they automatically tend to come more frontal to the face like an overhand, it's just weird

Well, the question of "is it due to styles" is a bit of an open-ended question. EVERYTHING in boxing is due to styles. Without styles, there's no boxing, everyone becomes robots.

However, a few things to keep in-mind is that 1) the peek-a-boo system was designed specifically for certain types of guys. Very fast, compact fighters who generated a lot of speed AND force over relatively short distances. Not everyone D'Amato trained learned it, and I don't think Atlas has ever taught it to anyone he trained once on his own. Rooney did, but not with much success. So, much of Tyson's power is genetic. 2) His speed hurt as many people as his power did. Tyson was a combination of both, not a mere brute force puncher, or relying largely on leverage like the tall skinny guys. 3) Tyson also knocked out many fighters with well-timed counters. When a guy covered up, Tyson looked for shots the guy wouldn't see. He didn't just stand there and bash him the way the Ruskis tend to do. Their whole delving into physiology was in order to compete with American athleticism, to bring all of their fighters to a certain level with regards to solidity, efficiency of motion, delivery of force. The Cubans did essentially the same thing, only they went the route of speed and motion.

You can generate power while moving defensively, it just takes a lot more work in-terms of how you shift your weight. Remember why the term leverage is called leverage. If the body is a lever, the hips are the fulcrum. One side tilts up, the other down, like a seesaw. As long as the leverage is preserved, the punch will have some weight on it. If not, then it'll only be as powerful as your arms are. Some very strong guys can hit hard without leverage in their favor, but it just tires them out if they can't get rid of you.

The trick for hitting really tall guys is almost stupidly simple...hit them in the body until the bend down a little bit. Then punch normally, just with an upward trajectory. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that. Or like Tyson used to, lower your elevation so they lower theirs, then come up subtly. If they stay lowered, you have the head. I wouldn't suggest raising the chin, as it lends to getting whiplash a thousand times easier if you're caught with a good shot. Tilting the torso lends to shooting upward much easier. But if you don't want to end up winging wild overhands and hooks, you make the guy lower.

 

[kenji goh]

Just what it sounds like. His shoulder remain level ---- and over the top of his hips, in the center of his stance. That's what allows him to get all his bodyweight behind his shots, he's not dipping his shoulders or separating his hips from his shoulders VS watch the Tyson video posted above and compare his shoulders/hips with those of GGG. Tysons hips will remain ----- but his shoulders are doing \ or / , leaning at the waist and dipping the shoulders. Yes, Tyson hit as hard as anyone ever but notice also how much more effortless GGG makes his power shots look and how much more balanced he is throughout. GGG get's much of his power through his posture (get's all his weight into his shots) and technical refinement (of course, he's got natural power as well). It's why GGG is able to move forward and put together powerful combination shot's (shifting forward punching) VS Tyson's power is more the "explosive" type of power and relied heavily on his pure athletic ability, hence why he had to get his feet set first to generate that big power.

Watch close in the videos of both Tyson and GGG, notice how GGG can come forward and change the angles as he throwing power shots VS Tyson, had to come forward, set his feet then throw shots. Watch the padholders, Able Sanchez is moving back/away as GGG is throwing shots vs. the second the padholder for Tyson backs up after he hits the pads, he's out of Tyson's range. Look closely and compare the distance between GGG/Tyson, when the padholder steps back after their shots. This is exactly why GGG is so good at cutting off the ring and walking down his opponents vs Tyson very often had to chase his opponent down or pin them on the ropes. GGG can move and punch simultaneously, and still get big power on his shots vs. Tyson had to move, set, throw

So you say that GGG's hips and shoulders stay on the same relative position between them and whether he is punching or slipping a punch they move in unison and not separated
like in Tyson's case? I got it right?

Also when you say keep the shoulders level you mean keeping them in a straight line horizontal with the ground or not shrugging them and keep them packed?