Getting stronger for Grappling

[Obscure Terror]

All sorts of lifts are mentioned in a chapter on accessory lifts in SS 2nd edition, but the SS programme was always

Day A: squat, bench, deadlift
Day B: squat, press, power clean

There were variants (like Practical Programming) but above was it. Has the basic programme recommended by Rip changed?

Of course none of this matters much, because people should switch to JauntyLifts after the first month or so anyway.

Seems so. Page 297 looks like this:

Day A: Squat, Bench, Power Clean
Day B: Squat, Press, Deadlift, Chins

Think that's the Practical Programming version right?

 

[dsdoubled]

Honestly I really like the battle ropes. They are incredibly versatile, very functional, and are very very good at working your shoulders, grip, trunk, legs, etc. They can be used in every plane of movement your body is capable of, and offer explosion and decceleration training. If I had to pick 1 method to aid grappling, the battleropes would be it.

 

[Bayonet]

This may not be the right place for this, but I was wondering why there seems to be so little emphasis on the deadlift in a lot of these programs. The Practical Programming SS has one squatting 3 times a week but only deadlifting once for one set of five... why is that?

Wouldn't this neglect on your back cause an imbalance? Serious question, so please school my dumb ass.

 

[HockeyBjj]

How is bench press such a transferable lift to grappling?

I guess the initial movement of it was what I was getting at, not the full press.

Being able to bump and move the guy a couple inches off you when he's tight in side control allows you to get off your back and turn into him, or start working for a re-guard

When I started, as a smaller guy, my biggest problem was a guy on top, whether it half or side, would just go chest to chest and I couldn't do an effing thing. All the technique in the world won't help you if you can't even move the guy or yourself, and you're too new to avoid getting in those bad positions yet

my 2 cents. But I should have also mentioned bent over barbell rows for the opposite and pulling an opponent into you. Especially for guard scenarios.

 

[selfcritical]

This may not be the right place for this, but I was wondering why there seems to be so little emphasis on the deadlift in a lot of these programs. The Practical Programming SS has one squatting 3 times a week but only deadlifting once for one set of five... why is that?

Wouldn't this neglect on your back cause an imbalance? Serious question, so please school my dumb ass.

There's a lot of overlap between the back squat and deadlift, so it's not too bad. I prefer things like 5/3/1 and juggernaut, where I'm able to deadlift more often. Power to the people and Easy Strength both have very high deadlift frequency, and people don't seem to explode running those.

 

[magick]

This may not be the right place for this, but I was wondering why there seems to be so little emphasis on the deadlift in a lot of these programs. The Practical Programming SS has one squatting 3 times a week but only deadlifting once for one set of five... why is that?

Wouldn't this neglect on your back cause an imbalance? Serious question, so please school my dumb ass.

The deadlift is not a back-intensive exercise. The back does the exact same thing it does in the squat- keep your body from folding over because of the weight you're trying to move.

Rippetoe's reasoning for keeping the deadlift to only 1x5 is because he expects you to be pulling really heavy + because doing well with the squat is transferable to the deadlift. Having a strong squat means your posterior chain and your core is strong, and both of these are directly applicable to the deadlift. The only thing you'd need then is a strong grip/strong upper back and good form. Both of which can be worked with other exercises that aren't as taxing, such as rows.

 

[FlexLuthor]

I was more curious as to why he felt that was in the top two applicable lifts.

Bench is a reasonably simple lift to learn that hits a very large amount of musculature, in a range of motion thats more sport specific than any other type of press.

 

[FlexLuthor]

The deadlift is not a back-intensive exercise.

Lol.

 

[Obscure Terror]

Lol.

He's not wrong. You don't deadlift with your back, or rather, if you are you're asking for injury. Your back needs to stay flat and locked and you use your legs and hips to apply force.

The deadlift is taxing on the back because you have to maintain an isometric contraction against the weight, but the prime mover in a correctly executed deadlift isn't the back musculature.

 

[FlexLuthor]

He's not wrong. You don't deadlift with your back, or rather, if you are you're asking for injury. Your back needs to stay flat and locked and you use your legs and hips to apply force.

The deadlift is taxing on the back because you have to maintain an isometric contraction against the weight, but the prime mover in a correctly executed deadlift isn't the back musculature.

You're correct, he's not... based on the meaning of the word "intensive."

The back is not the prime mover, I agree. However, to say that the DL does not seriously tax the musculature of the back, (especially the spinal erectors) is foolish... And wrong.

Thus, "intensive" is exactly what the deadlift is for the back. Just as it is grip intensive, even though the hands/forearms are not primary movers. They stabilize exactly like the back.

Word choice matters. Especially when you are helping people less experienced than yourself design a program.

 

[Obscure Terror]

All true, but he specifically compared the deadlift to the squat in terms of effect on the back. I would say that's fair, I don't find either exercise jacks my back up if I do them correctly. They both effect my hamstrings more, and lats in the deadlift.

The original question was that "wouldn't the low volume of deadlifts cause neglect for the back". But the deadlift isn't a back-specific exercise anyway so you're not really neglecting that part of the body if you're doing squats 3x per week.

 

[StevenCrowder]

All true, but he specifically compared the deadlift to the squat in terms of effect on the back. I would say that's fair, I don't find either exercise jacks my back up if I do them correctly. They both effect my hamstrings more, and lats in the deadlift.

The original question was that "wouldn't the low volume of deadlifts cause neglect for the back". But the deadlift isn't a back-specific exercise anyway so you're not really neglecting that part of the body if you're doing squats 3x per week.

Box squats are particularly useful in their transfer to DL's because of the initial force required with a dead weight starting point.

 

[Bayonet]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to try that SS practical programming template for awhile and see how I do with it.

 

[magick]

The back is not the prime mover, I agree. However, to say that the DL does not seriously tax the musculature of the back, (especially the spinal erectors) is foolish... And wrong.

Apologies for the wrong word choice.

I will rephrase- The deadlift is not a major lower back exercise.

By the word intensive I meant "major focus" or something of that effect. The lower back is not the major focus of the deadlift, as many people seem to think it is.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Thanks flex and Hockey, I was just curious. I am personally of the opinion that doing any physical activity is beneficial to grappling.

 

[FlexLuthor]

Thanks flex and Hockey, I was just curious. I am personally of the opinion that doing any physical activity is beneficial to grappling.

For sure. And I agree. But training time is limited.. So its hard to know exactly how to spend the time for the most carryover to grappling. Many many opinions out there.

 

[ironwolf]

How is bench press such a transferable lift to grappling?

I feel like it helps me when somebody gets me in side control, If I can make a bit of space, it makes a hip escape much easier, then I can get a nee in and try something else.

 

[Left Hook Lacy]

Isn't that carryover discussion a little silly? I've never grappled but it's a sport that pretty much requires strength in your whole body right? So obviously an exercise like the bench press that works on a lot of muscles at the same time is gonna be helpful in a sport like grappling.

 

[aus101]

You're correct, he's not... based on the meaning of the word "intensive."

The back is not the prime mover, I agree. However, to say that the DL does not seriously tax the musculature of the back, (especially the spinal erectors) is foolish... And wrong.

Thus, "intensive" is exactly what the deadlift is for the back. Just as it is grip intensive, even though the hands/forearms are not primary movers. They stabilize exactly like the back.

Word choice matters. Especially when you are helping people less experienced than yourself design a program.

Exactly, the prime mover is irrelevant if your back is fried, a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Heavy deads will fatigue your lower back (and upper back with the traps though some classify traps as shoulders).

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

i'd worry about just getting mat time and working on technique - perhaps when you hit purple then you can start to worry about putting on some muscle. It seems purple is the time when that extra bit of strength can help you past that evenly skilled opponent.