Getting BJJ guys to do Judo

[PoundSand]

...Seoi nage and uchimata aren't so bad because they are comparatively smooth, but harai goshi, tai otoshi, some others are just nasty.

Getting thrown high and fast when you are near 200 pounds or more is just no fun. To me, it's worse than being leveled with osoto. Granted, I've never been hit with Einarr's osoto. Otherwise I wouldn't be typing this.

you missed harai goshi practice all last week. was... tiring... :icon_neut

 

[Uchi Mata]

O soto gari is not even the worst, for me the worst seem to be throws where your opponent "blocks" you, such that the tension builds and then you get whipped hard straight over the guy. Seoi nage and uchimata aren't so bad because they are comparatively smooth, but harai goshi, tai otoshi, some others are just nasty.

Getting thrown high and fast when you are near 200 pounds or more is just no fun. To me, it's worse than being leveled with osoto. Granted, I've never been hit with Einarr's osoto. Otherwise I wouldn't be typing this.

Osoto in real life is often a blocking throw, where tori will hook your leg from a distance while breaking your balance and hop/drive into position to finish the throw. It's pretty painful because you often don't go until the last second, but then you fall at an odd angle with tori landing hard on top of you. This is probably how Einarr kills so many people, since the combination of lutefisk and assembling lots of your own furniture is known to drastically harden the body.

 

[Rod1]

Judo is hamstrung by stupid restrictions set in place by the morons in the IJF. Because most clubs compete that I have seen, they don't teach the full Judo curriculum.

No te guruma, morote gari or kibisu gaeshi is retarded. Again, my experience is not huge but those takedowns were effective in wrestling when I did that sport and looked very effective in pre-castrated Judo.

Also, one reason people don't train Judo seems to be a fear of being thrown. Probably because no one taught them to take a fall but even mighty Einarr must agree getting planted repeatedly (especially above 90kg) with o soto gari and other big throws does leave you feeling a tad beat down.

Also, having a spastic BJJ white belt launch me scares the bejesus outta me.

How is judo castrated and wrestling isnt? wrestling doesnt even has subs. Judo is specialized and so is wrestling and BJJ.

And even if you are not looking into learning judo, its never bad to go and spar a little judo once in a while, it does makes your standup better.

 

[RJ Green]

How is judo castrated and wrestling isnt? wrestling doesnt even has subs. Judo is specialized and so is wrestling and BJJ.

And even if you are not looking into learning judo, its never bad to go and spar a little judo once in a while, it does makes your standup better.

judo is less and less grounded in reality each year.

 

[Rod1]

judo is less and less grounded in reality each year.

As opposed to wrestling and BJJ?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

As opposed to wrestling and BJJ?

he probably meant grounded as "ground art" so yeah, as totally opposed to bjj and folkstyle.

edit: or nop...

 

[Uchi Mata]

As opposed to wrestling and BJJ?

Sadly, I agree. The IJF continually modifies the rules to encourage one very specific style of playing Judo, mostly by making important techniques from other styles of Judo illegal or very hard to use. There used to be people who specialized in pickups, now not so much. There used to be people who were really good on the ground and won a lot of matches by pin or sub. Now, not so much. The IJF basically wants Judo to be a seio nage/uchi mata contest between two people with minimal grip fighting. That's not a very realistic system for combat. BJJ and wrestling are much less restrictive in their rule sets, and don't seem to particularly care about promoting one way of playing the sport over any other. That leads to a lot more variety in the technical arsenals of top guys, and allows people to customize the art to fit their physical and mental traits. Judo is losing that rapidly.

 

[Uchi Mata]

he probably meant grounded as "ground art" so yeah, as totally opposed to bjj and folkstyle.

he meant 'grounded'. In English 'grounded' means 'based in' or 'relevant/pertaining to'.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

he meant 'grounded'. In English 'grounded' means 'based in' or 'relevant/pertaining to'.

yeah thats what I thought, after having a second look to the sentence...

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Sadly, I agree. The IJF continually modifies the rules to encourage one very specific style of playing Judo, mostly by making important techniques from other styles of Judo illegal or very hard to use. There used to be people who specialized in pickups, now not so much. There used to be people who were really good on the ground and won a lot of matches by pin or sub. Now, not so much. The IJF basically wants Judo to be a seio nage/uchi mata contest between two people with minimal grip fighting. That's not a very realistic system for combat. BJJ and wrestling are much less restrictive in their rule sets, and don't seem to particularly care about promoting one way of playing the sport over any other. That leads to a lot more variety in the technical arsenals of top guys, and allows people to customize the art to fit their physical and mental traits. Judo is losing that rapidly.

Next post...

Rod 1: "but you cant pull guard on the streets" and "Ronda is wrecking the MMA world, and will be the next UFC HW champ, Cain aint got shit on her" ...

 

[Chotoken]

I'm not much into the points games, I'm all about taking someone down. If you are descent at Judo you can toss BJJ guys all over the place. You may or may not end up in the best positions all of the time, but who cares? I say take them down however you want and if you pull off a cool throw and slam them, then so much the better. Sometimes I can throw guys left and right (especially on Gi nights), other times not so much. Again, who cares. I feel the Martial Arts of today are all about the mixing of the styles. Take what works for you out of Judo and leave the rest. Do the same for Sambo, or Wrestling, or whatever.

 

[Rod1]

he probably meant grounded as "ground art" so yeah, as totally opposed to bjj and folkstyle.

edit: or nop...

This thread is about standup.

Also its funny, how folkstyle, a sport where you lose if you get on your back and who lacks submissions is LESS restrictive than judo which allows far more variety of pins, where also you can win by choke or locks.

Or is it the usual rule that a Judoka cant crosstrain while the wrestler can.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

This thread is about standup.

Also its funny, how folkstyle, a sport where you lose if you get on your back and who lacks submissions is LESS restrictive than judo which allows far more variety of pins, where also you can win by choke or locks.

Or is it the usual rule that a Judoka cant crosstrain while the wrestler can.

I was talking about bjj being less restrictive, but anyways, in terms of which sport is more restrictive, I believe wrestling is less in terms of, wrestling, both sports main objective I believe is to take someone down, in this regard, wrestling is by far less restrictive...

 

[Rod1]

Sadly, I agree. The IJF continually modifies the rules to encourage one very specific style of playing Judo,

Or actually discourage other styles of playing.

mostly by making important techniques from other styles of Judo illegal or very hard to use. There used to be people who specialized in pickups, now not so much.

For every player that actually was succesful with pickups there were plently who used them to stall. Much couldnt be done without actually changing scoring, which would had led more and more to point fighting. IMO Ippon Judo is more "realistic" than points judo.

And you can see that sport BJJ and MMA BJJ are going opposite directions for the same reason, create rules and there will be people who will abuse said rules.

There used to be people who were really good on the ground and won a lot of matches by pin or sub

\

Maybe its me, as i havent seen many statistics, but i see far more groundwork nowadays than in the 2000s.

Now, not so much. The IJF basically wants Judo to be a seio nage/uchi mata contest between two people with minimal grip fighting. That's not a very realistic system for combat.

As opposed to score a koka and ride the points to victory? thats quite realistic.

BJJ and wrestling are much less restrictive in their rule sets, and don't seem to particularly care about promoting one way of playing the sport over any other.

This is completely false, BJJ has a very specific set of scoring and one where you are rewarded by actions rather than position.

And how can you declare a sport that lacks submissions and guard as more complete grappling than Judo?

That leads to a lot more variety in the technical arsenals of top guys, and allows people to customize the art to fit their physical and mental traits. Judo is losing that rapidly.

No it doesnt, in BJJ and in wrestling a few techniques make up for the most scoring, also in BJJ certain actions are rewarded like passing guard and sweeping, which in Judo are not even scored.

It makes no sense for a guy to pull guard and then do a sweep and be ahead in points in BJJ, that would actually mean that guard is a bad position and it was reversed.

If you watch statistical analysis of the 2012 olympics and compare them to 2008 olympics you will see that not much has changed, while certain things have been limited, other things have been freed up.

 

[Uchi Mata]

This thread is about standup.

Also its funny, how folkstyle, a sport where you lose if you get on your back and who lacks submissions is LESS restrictive than judo which allows far more variety of pins, where also you can win by choke or locks.

Or is it the usual rule that a Judoka cant crosstrain while the wrestler can.

Bingo. BJJ, wrestling, sambo, are all less restrictive in terms of standup than Judo. Much less.

 

[Rod1]

I was talking about bjj being less restrictive, but anyways, in terms of which sport is more restrictive, I believe wrestling is less in terms of, wrestling, both sports main objective I believe is to take someone down, in this regard, wrestling is by far less restrictive...

How is BJJ less restrictive? it has points for every action which defines the gamplans of its competitors. Just look at how much sport BJJ has drifted away from MMA BJJ.

Ill agree somewhat that wrestling takedowns are less restrictive and its gameplan is better, but only because wrestling is based on a progressive point system, Judo isnt, therefore stalling in judo is easier.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

How is BJJ less restrictive? it has points for every action which defines the gamplans of its competitors. Just look at how much sport BJJ has drifted away from MMA BJJ.

Ill agree somewhat that wrestling takedowns are less restrictive and its gameplan is better, but only because wrestling is based on a progressive point system, Judo isnt, therefore stalling in judo is easier.

less restrictive = you can do whatever the hell you want to do to get your opponent down.

not to mention, you can do pretty much all submissions on the ground, judo? yeah right...

Sport bjj and MMA bjj are 2 different animals, and it should be, strikes make the sport totally different, period.

 

[Rod1]

Bingo. BJJ, wrestling, sambo, are all less restrictive in terms of standup than Judo. Much less.

For that very same reason standup is optional in BJJ and folkstyle wrestling, freestyle wrestling where the standup is not optional has its safeguards just as judo to avoid exploiting.

 

[Rod1]

less restrictive = you can do whatever the hell you want to do to get your opponent down.

not to mention, you can do pretty much all submissions on the ground, judo? yeah right...

Sport bjj and MMA bjj are 2 different animals, and it should be, strikes make the sport totally different, period.

No, restrictions can be placed by points too.

If you pull guard on me and sweep me to the exact same position i was, you get 2 points even if "realistically" as you put it, you did absolutely nothing.

Is i throw you and land in side control i get 2 points, if i pull guard and you pass me you get 3 points even if the end result is the same.

If i throw you directly to side control i get 2 points, if you throw me and i defend with guard and then you pass me, you get 5 points for the same result.

If you throw me face first and i defend and then reverse you i get nothing, you get 2 points.

BJJ scoring system isnt based on goals or reality, therefore claiming that BJJ is more "realistic" because of less rules is stupid when the rules themselves limit whats being scored and what isnt.

BJJ leaves a lot of wrestling moves out, because of the ruleset, just look at Telles and its "wrestling"based turtle guard, it was out because a lot of things that score in wrestling dont score in BJJ.

Also in Judo, nobody is telling you how to get that pin, submission or choke, or how to defend it.

Telling me that BJJ is less restrictive is a joke, in BJJ if someone pulls guard on me, i cant pull guard anymore, or attempt a standing sweep because its 2 points for my opponent if i try anything else but to pass his guard.

I love the BJJ hipocrisy

"Judo is so restrictive, how you take someone down shouldnt matter as long as you do"

*proceeds to defend a guard pass by going to turtle and then doing a wrestling situp*

"Well you didnt get 2 points for the reversal or 3 points for side control because its not BJJ, BJJ is sweep from guard and pass said guard, positions dont matter if you use wrestling"

Or even better, wrestling situps and scrambles are power moves, and BJJ is about technique, LOL.

 

[faixabranca]

How is BJJ less restrictive? it has points for every action which defines the gamplans of its competitors. Just look at how much sport BJJ has drifted away from MMA BJJ.

Ill agree somewhat that wrestling takedowns are less restrictive and its gameplan is better, but only because wrestling is based on a progressive point system, Judo isnt, therefore stalling in judo is easier.

I can cross grip, pistol grip and grab the belt in BJJ rules but not anymore in Judo.

Rod, only an idiot would suggest actual Judo isn't effective but it becomes far less so when Vizer and his cronies keep taking everything away.

Even the great Kashiwazaki wouldn't have ever been nearly as good under current rules.

Why, because you basically have to stand there take a sleeve and lapel grip and use a very limited amount of throws which are spectacular visually.

God forbid if you aren't Inoue-esque and like ne waza or unconventional Judo these days.