Get the origins right!

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by masterfighter, May 10, 2008.

  1. masterfighter

    masterfighter Green Belt

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    Isnt it generally accepted that bjj evolved from what a judo master, Mitsuyo Maeda taught the gracies how to fight?
    If so then why do i always encounter people claiming that bjj was evolved from japanese jujitsu. Heres some Examples:
    MMA Videos - Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Fight Quest Documentary Video
    documentary

    Roger Gracie Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Academy - London - History of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
    roger gracie acadamy history section of bjj, no mention of judo

    the human weapon episode on judo also includes them claiming that bjj and judo have the same origin in jujitsu.

    Surely these people whould know better?
     
  2. blanko

    blanko Guest

    where do you think judo came from? :S
     
  3. masterfighter

    masterfighter Green Belt

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    I know where judo came from but if you listen to some of these people they often say that when jujitsu became extinct in japan in favour of judo, it survived in brazil and became bjj (this is what is said in the human weapon episode). This is just wrong.
     
  4. georgejjr

    georgejjr Black Belt

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    Judo came from jiu jitsu. Other than that, anyone who knows anything about BJJ knows Maeda was the first person to teach the Gracies, and was a judo person.

    BTW, Roger Gracie cross trains in judo at the Budokwai in England (England's top club which has produced several olympic medalists), I doubt he's prejudiced against judo. Its just a difference in terminology ... Kano's judo was called Kano-ryu jiu-jitsu by many in Japan for a long time.
     
  5. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    It's not entirely wrong. Judo and jiu jitsu were not very distinct at the time Maeda came over to Brazil. Judo was basically just a type of jiu jitsu, a specific school with a distinct philosophy. That's why BJJ was called jiu jitsu.

    Modern judo then developed over the ensuing 90 years or so to become its own beast. So in a sense, it can be said that the old jiu jitsu (of which judo at the turn of the century was one style) survived in Brazil, while its judo branch underwent radical changes in Japan/internationally.

    Basically both judo and BJJ split off from JJJ, just judo split off a little before BJJ did, and then BJJ split off from judo.
     
  6. BillP3

    BillP3 Orange Belt

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    Zankou is right.

    Also you have to realize that Maeda didn't just teach straight Judo. He implemented Jiu Jitsu and judo into his teachings. He also integrated catch wrestling into his teachings.

    BJJ is a mixed bad.
     
  7. Czyivn

    Czyivn Yellow Belt

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    Maeda called what he did "jiu jitsu". That's probably why it stuck with that name. If they thought it was from judo, why wouldn't they have called it Brazilian Judo? Maeda probably taught things markedly differently from the kodokan curriculum (more ground emphasis and submissions). He obviously did teach a judo-like style of jiu jitsu, though, as it has live rolling and lacks a lot of the silly "grab my wrist, no my other wrist" static defense moves that are a staple of Japanese jiu jitsu.
     
  8. -Montanha-

    -Montanha- Blue Belt

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    This is from my fathers mouth, a Kodokan BB from 1950.

    Japan "Out-Lawed" jiu-jitsu because of the danger, example; is you could be attacked/highjacked bringing your wares to town on foot.

    Kano was able to keep some of Japan's heratage alive by offering a segment of the techniques to make a sport that the State allowed. They also used the sport to prosolotize the State Religion and promote the responsibility of the Art, thus hiding the Martial skills.

    Jiu-jitsu was a war weapon. My Dad also saw private sessions of old BBs practicing stuff that looked like a combination of modern day Krava Maga and Sambo. My Dad also saw some great weapons sessions. He was stationed in Japan in the occupation.

    Jiu-jitsu was once a complete Martial Skill Set. Takedown and kill using everything.

    Maeda taught the Gracies in Brazil to get around the law to preserve those skills where it would be further practiced and handed down.

    It all come from one origin and was all used in unison.


    Note; in my father's travels, he noted that the Turks and Koreans were on a different level when it came to the use of Edged Weapons[knives].
     

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