Economy Germans Revolt Against Wind Power – As Power Prices Spiral Out of Control

[Heisenboom]

Going green = fourth industrial revoluton (WeF).

Time will prove me right.

 

[rob mafia]

You do realise that mining the material for solar panals is extremely toxic, as they are radioactive too?!

most are just monocrystalline.

This isn't accurate. Go read through the EIA's Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) annual report. Nuclear can't compete in the markets. That is why Entergy just closed Indian Point.

basically this.

nuclear's essentially priced out. in recent years, solar's made great strides... although, most seem to go about it all wrong/cheap out/don't do it optimally.

whether natural or artificial, nuclear's in a strange financial position.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

This isn't accurate. Go read through the EIA's Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE) annual report. Nuclear can't compete in the markets. That is why Entergy just closed Indian Point.

It's funny you bring that up, because Entergy tried to lobby Albany for the same subsidies natural gas gets, or the same green tax credits that wind and solar get. They got denied. Now NY State is having to ration power because of ill-informed people like you.

 

[rob mafia]

It's funny you bring that up, because Entergy tried to lobby Albany for the same subsidies natural gas gets, or the same green tax credits that wind and solar get. They got denied. Now NY State is having to ration power because of ill-informed people like you.

you're conflating 2 different issues: cost per watt and amount of wattage.

yes, nuclear can easily create massive wattage. but the total costs of nuclear power have essentially increased relative to alternatives... and to a degree that places nuclear as more costly.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...xpensive-to-save-climate-report-idUSKBN1W909J

The cost of generating solar power ranges from $36 to $44 per megawatt hour (MWh), the WNISR said, while onshore wind power comes in at $29–$56 per MWh. Nuclear energy costs between $112 and $189.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

most are just monocrystalline.
.

They use plenty of lanthanides. But who gives a fuck about little Chinese kids dying in a mine up the side of the Himalayas.

 

[Prefect]

It's funny you bring that up, because Entergy tried to lobby Albany for the same subsidies natural gas gets, or the same green tax credits that wind and solar get. They got denied. Now NY State is having to ration power because of ill-informed people like you.

Go read the EIA LCOE report. It itemizes everything with or without subsidies. Nuclear is uncompetitive. It is nice to claim this or that without looking at the numbers but there are very clear reasons why a nuclear power plant hasn't been built since 1978 in the U.S..

 

[Rand M Arthur]

Go read the EIA LCOE report. It itemizes everything with or without subsidies. Nuclear is uncompetitive. It is nice to claim this or that without looking at the numbers but there are very clear reasons why a nuclear power plant hasn't been built since 1978 in the U.S..

If you are talking about the table on pp. 7, 8 & 9, then you have to sum the expediturr of both solar/wind and battery together to get a baseload price, which is of a similar performance level to nuclear.

This report is also flawed, as I'm 9 pages in and no mention of the billions in subsidies given to natural gas is mentioned.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

you're conflating 2 different issues: cost per watt and amount of wattage.

yes, nuclear can easily create massive wattage. but the total costs of nuclear power have essentially increased relative to alternatives... and to a degree that places nuclear as more costly.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...xpensive-to-save-climate-report-idUSKBN1W909J

The cost of generating solar power ranges from $36 to $44 per megawatt hour (MWh), the WNISR said, while onshore wind power comes in at $29–$56 per MWh. Nuclear energy costs between $112 and $189.

Those two benifit from green tax credits, and don't provide baseload without battery storage.

 

[aerius]

most are just monocrystalline.

Silicone doped with various metals and/or rare earth elements, some of which are quite toxic. Mining some of those elements has resulted in giant lakes of toxic waste in China and other countries. Then we go to the production process which involves a bunch of chlorine & fluorine chemistry among other things, which once again is toxic as hell which is why most of it is done in China and other countries where they don't give a shit about environmental or worker protection.

 

[rob mafia]

They use plenty of lanthanides. But who gives a fuck about little Chinese kids dying in a mine up the side of the Himalayas.

wow. generalizing solar panels to those of which use lanthanides and then generalizing that to dead chinese kids.

solid argument. airtight, even. obviously, every solar manufacturer uses dead china kid materials. or most? shit. well, some do. oh, they're essentially banned in the usa? well, the argument still stands.


wut

 

[rob mafia]

Silicone doped with various metals and/or rare earth elements, some of which are quite toxic. Mining some of those elements has resulted in giant lakes of toxic waste in China and other countries. Then we go to the production process which involves a bunch of chlorine & fluorine chemistry among other things, which once again is toxic as hell which is why most of it is done in China and other countries where they don't give a shit about environmental or worker protection.

china, mexicali. same difference.

 

[aerius]

china, mexicali. same difference.

Huh. I'd heard that Cali was on the way to becoming a shithole, but I didn't know they were already there. Learn something new every day.

 

[woodguyatl]

So I guess the high electricity prices are because the German government are trying to recoup the money they spent on these big ass wind mills?

Also I never heard any Germans complain about the "sound" of them.

I'm gonna message my German buddies and ask them what they are hearing about this.

Windmills are not very loud at a distance but up close they are about 100 decibels or the equivalent of a lawn mower. Here is some information from GE about the windmills they make.

How Loud Is A Wind Turbine?
August 02, 2014

Because wind turbines are such a great source of clean, renewable energy, they’re usually greeted with a great deal of enthusiasm. But some complaints have been made that they can cause too much noise for residents living within a mile of the blades.
So just how noisy are these turbines?

The closest that a wind turbine is typically placed to a home is 300 meters or more. At that distance, a turbine will have a sound pressure level of 43 decibels. To put that in context, the average air conditioner can reach 50 decibels of noise, and most refrigerators run at around 40 decibels.

At 500 meters (0.3 miles) away, that sound pressure level drops to 38 decibels. In most places, according to Keith Longtin of GE Renewable Energy, background noise ranges from 40 to 45 decibels, meaning that a turbine’s noise would be lost amongst it. For the stillest, most rural areas, Longtin says the background noise is 30 decibels. At that level, a turbine located about a mile away wouldn’t be heard.

For a complete run down of louder-than-a-fridge but quieter-than-a-blender context points, check out the graphic above.

 

[Prefect]

If you are talking about the table on pp. 7, 8 & 9, then you have to sum the expediturr of both solar/wind and battery together to get a baseload price, which is of a similar performance level to nuclear.

This report is also flawed, as I'm 9 pages in and no mention of the billions in subsidies given to natural gas is mentioned.

Page 16 shows levelized cost with or without tax credits.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf

Can you just stop. You don't work in the industry and don't even know how to read the report. No matter how much I explain it to you, your end goal is to just say that nuclear is better even it is more expensive than other forms of generation even though it gets a levelized tax subsidy of $6 per MWH. Just quit pretending you are trying to understand it and be more honest and just say that you don't care about the report or what private industry has been doing for the last 40 years. I grow old trying to explain this stuff to people who only fake care about the information and reports.

 

[Prefect]

you're conflating 2 different issues: cost per watt and amount of wattage.

yes, nuclear can easily create massive wattage. but the total costs of nuclear power have essentially increased relative to alternatives... and to a degree that places nuclear as more costly.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...xpensive-to-save-climate-report-idUSKBN1W909J

The cost of generating solar power ranges from $36 to $44 per megawatt hour (MWh), the WNISR said, while onshore wind power comes in at $29–$56 per MWh. Nuclear energy costs between $112 and $189.

I am 100% in agreement with everything Rob just said. Who knew our common ground was power generation.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

Page 16 shows levelized cost with or without tax credits.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf

Can you just stop. You don't work in the industry and don't even know how to read the report. No matter how much I explain it to you, your end goal is to just say that nuclear is better even it is more expensive than other forms of generation even though it gets a levelized tax subsidy of $6 per MWH. Just quit pretending you are trying to understand it and be more honest and just say that you don't care about the report or what private industry has been doing for the last 40 years. I grow old trying to explain this stuff to people who only fake care about the information and reports.

I actually do work in this industry, in safety design. And like I wrote, the cost of wind or solar, with battery storage is around twice the cost of nuclear, or around 80% the cost of nuclear when backed up with subsidized natural gas.

 

[ajccoming]

I feel like there's an energy drink joke in here somewhere...