Social George Bush sitting with Ellen Degeneres at the Packers vs Cowboys game: Update Ellen Responds...

[SmilinDesperado]

The Iraq war was ill advised, but not unjust. And this kind of outrage is pretty damn selective in my experience.

And let's not act as if this is some kind of isolated incident. There's been a remarkable surge in narrow-mindedness and intolerance in our country, and the biggest bastion of self-righteous judgment of any and all who commit wrong think is the woke left. Be bigger. Bigger minded and bigger hearted.

"ill advised"?????

lol You can't put an "oopsie" bandaid on some shit that resulted in the destabilization of an entire region, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, and the incalcuable and irreprebale damage that the survivors have to deal with.
That shit was unjust and illegal. And we are STILL there.
If America wasn't America, we'd be in the Hague.
And Bush was against gay marriage.
So, as a human, and a lesbian, it's pretty baffling that she can be friends with a guy that opposed her right to marry, and was directly responsible for the shitstrom that is Iraq. That doesn't mean that she needs to hurl a fresh poop at him the moment she sees him, you can be civil, but his FRIEND?

What is selective about the outrage? What other 20 year wars do we have going on right now? The scale is incomparable.

I won't disagree that there is definitely some douchebaggery going on on both sides. But the "biggest bastion" of it? Child please.
A lot of right wing politics is about the exclusion of groups, either outright, or deceptively. It always has been.
But I am curious what you think the left is intolerant about. Should all views be tolerated?
Again, I do agree that there are some woke shit heads out there, but i'm curious as to what exactly you think the left is being narrow-minded about.

 

[ShadowRun]

He’s a idiot and lucky Norton decided to screw himself over.

 

[genecop]

F both of them

 

[Bob Arctor]

Imagine being so obtuse that you treat George Bush as if he was your run of the mill, outspoken, kooky right/left winger co-worker, Bob that you sometimes have political spats with.

I get what she's saying, and it is a nice sentiment, but her message is flawed.
We're not talking about a difference of opinion on tax cuts or eating meat here. We're talking about an unjust war that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
Americans are so often detached from the actions our country does.
Like...what...5,000 American soldiers died, to the 500,000 Iraqis?? And half of those were civilians.
And the guy that started the war that is still going on gets to put on a goofy smile, paint some pictures , and all is supposed to be forgiven because he's not as stupid or crass in his mannerisms as the current jackass in the White House?

There are some things that you can let slide, things that don't need to be fought over, and then there are other things that deal with who you are as a human being.
We can have disagreements on legalization of drugs, and immigration policies...but wars that caused death and destruction of innocents? Human rights abuses? Discrimination based on race, gender, or sexual orientation? Yeah, no.

I bet you stay up late at night crying about dead Iraqis don’t you??? Nope. Fake outrage is cute.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I bet you stay up late at night crying about dead Iraqis don’t you??? Nope. Fake outrage is cute.

What kind of retarded argument is this?
Why are you people so dumb?
Yes, believe it or not, as a fellow human being, I care when other human beings are needlessly suffering and being killed, especially when it's being done by my own country over some bullshit.
I don't care if they're Iraqis , Venezuelans, Dagestanians, or Cameroonians.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

The Iraq war was ill advised, but not unjust. And this kind of outrage is pretty damn selective in my experience.

And let's not act as if this is some kind of isolated incident. There's been a remarkable surge in narrow-mindedness and intolerance in our country, and the biggest bastion of self-righteous judgment of any and all who commit wrong think is the woke left. Be bigger. Bigger minded and bigger hearted.

How was it not unjust?
What was the justification for killing 1,000,000 Iraqis?

 

[Bob Arctor]

What kind of retarded argument is this?
Why are you people so dumb?
Yes, believe it or not, as a fellow human being, I care when other human beings are needlessly suffering and being killed, especially when it's being done by my own country over some bullshit.
I don't care if they're Iraqis , Venezuelans, Dagestanians, or Cameroonians.

just pile on the fake outrage. Keep it flowing lol.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

@SmilinDesperado don't respond to that troll account.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

What kind of retarded argument is this?
Why are you people so dumb?
Yes, believe it or not, as a fellow human being, I care when other human beings are needlessly suffering and being killed, especially when it's being done by my own country over some bullshit.
I don't care if they're Iraqis , Venezuelans, Dagestanians, or Cameroonians.

Sociopathic shitbags don’t have the capacity to empathize and can’t fathom that anyone else could either. You must be faking it.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

@SmilinDesperado don't respond to that troll account.

Oh yeah, after I saw his last reply i was done.
I forgot my 'No Fraternizing With White Belts' rule for a second there.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

@SmilinDesperado don't respond to that troll account.

Desperado is a troll too though...

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Desperado is a troll too though...

No @?
Yellow belly, and a yellow card.
Double yellows. Double Sad.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

"ill advised"?????

lol You can't put an "oopsie" bandaid on some shit that resulted in the destabilization of an entire region, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, and the incalcuable and irreprebale damage that the survivors have to deal with.
That shit was unjust and illegal. And we are STILL there.
If America wasn't America, we'd be in the Hague.
And Bush was against gay marriage.
So, as a human, and a lesbian, it's pretty baffling that she can be friends with a guy that opposed her right to marry, and was directly responsible for the shitstrom that is Iraq. That doesn't mean that she needs to hurl a fresh poop at him the moment she sees him, you can be civil, but his FRIEND?

What is selective about the outrage? What other 20 year wars do we have going on right now? The scale is incomparable.

I won't disagree that there is definitely some douchebaggery going on on both sides. But the "biggest bastion" of it? Child please.
A lot of right wing politics is about the exclusion of groups, either outright, or deceptively. It always has been.
But I am curious what you think the left is intolerant about. Should all views be tolerated?
Again, I do agree that there are some woke shit heads out there, but i'm curious as to what exactly you think the left is being narrow-minded about.

1. I didn't put an oopsie bandage on anything, and you seem to agree with me that the Iraq War was ill advised. However, the Iraq war was neither illegal nor unjust.
2. What makes Ellen's take so refreshing is that as a human and a lesbian she is able to befriend other humans who don't fit her narrower categorization. She didn't fall into the identity politics trap that would divide us into opposing camps based on narrowly tailored interests. Life and people are more than politics.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

How was it not unjust?
What was the justification for killing 1,000,000 Iraqis?

I think people forget just how wicked the regime of Saddam Hussein was. Also, the best info we had at the time was that he was stockpiling WMDs. This was easy to believe at the time, given that he had already used WMDs on ethnic minorities in his own country in the recent past.

People die in wars. But that doesn't make everyone who wages wars a war criminal. One of the striking things about the Iraq War was how easy it was to get dozens of other nations on board with the military alliance. There was a broad consensus both domestically and internationally that Saddam had to go.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Not one single thing you mentioned was justification for the Iraq War.

I think people forget just how wicked the regime of Saddam Hussein was.

1. Not the reason we went there.
2. We killed 1,000,000 Iraqis. Plus we also destroyed their infrastructure and unleashed sectarian violence. And this was after our sanctions lead to the death of 500,000 children.

Now lets put that in perspective:

In January 2004, Human Rights Watch stated: "Having devoted extensive time and effort to documenting [Saddam's] atrocities, we estimate that in the last twenty-five years of Ba'th Party rule the Iraqi government murdered or 'disappeared' some quarter of a million Iraqis, if not more."[22][23] The 1988 Al-Anfal campaign resulted in the death of 50,000-100,000 Kurds (although Kurdish sources have cited a higher figure of 182,000), while 25,000-100,000 civilians and rebels were killed during the suppression of the 1991 uprisings.[10][24] In addition, 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison were reportedly executed in a particularly large 1984 purge.[25] Far fewer Iraqis are known to have been executed during other years of Saddam's rule. For example, "Amnesty International reported that in 1981 over 350 people were officially executed in Iraq ... the Committee Against Repression in Iraq gives biographic particulars on 798 executions (along with 264 killings of unknown persons, and 428 biographies of unsentenced detainees and disappeared persons)." Kanan Makiya cautions that a focus on the death toll obscures the full extent of "the terror inside Iraq," which was largely the product of the pervasive secret police and systematic use of torture.[21]

Also, the best info we had at the time was that he was stockpiling WMDs.

No, not the best info we had at the time.
THIS is not info. And we know they lied, so why are you pretending we were operating off of intel?

This was easy to believe at the time

Only if you weren't paying attention, and again, it ignores the fact that they lied.

People die in wars. But that doesn't make everyone who wages wars a war criminal.

yeah, they do. But when the war is based on a lie, targets civilians, and includes torture its a war crime.

One of the striking things about the Iraq War was how easy it was to get dozens of other nations on board with the military alliance. There was a broad consensus both domestically and internationally that Saddam had to go.

How old are you? Because W's "coalition" was a farce. Compare it to the one HW formed.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Not one single thing you mentioned was justification for the Iraq War.

1. Not the reason we went there.

It was a big part of it. Lots of governments have WMDs. The Brits do, we do. The issue was not that the weapons existed, but that a bad actor had the weapons. It was easy to get dozens of nations on board to attack Iraq in large part because of the danger Saddam posed to the region, having previously started ugly wars with two of his neighbors.

No, not the best info we had at the time.
THIS is not info. And we know they lied, so why are you pretending we were operating off of intel?

I'm not pretending anything. I don't think the US and UK were lying. Also, what is your "This" supposed to be? I figured it was a link but not working. If it isn't a link, then please provide your evidence that the intelligence info was known to be false.

targets civilians, and includes torture its a war crime.

Targeting civilians and torture are considered war crimes. Those culpable should be tried, and in several cases, they have been. Are you suggesting George Bush tortured someone or ordered the targeting of civilians? He didn't.

How old are you? Because W's "coalition" was a farce. Compare it to the one HW formed.

My age is irrelevant, though I am likely older than you are. It is nonsense to suggest the coalition that invaded Iraq in 2003 was a farce. It wasn't. In what way to find it inferior to the coalition in 1992?



Again, what you have here is an argument that the Iraq War was ill advised and poorly executed. I tend to agree, though I wonder how historians will view it when emotions cool over the next few decades. Do you think JFK is a war criminal? How about Lyndon Johnson? How about Obama? Let's make it easier. How about you list a few post WW2 presidents who were not war criminals?

 

[Bob Arctor]

Oh yeah, after I saw his last reply i was done.
I forgot my 'No Fraternizing With White Belts' rule for a second there.

be honest, you don’t have any rules about fraternizing with white belts, you just have rules about fraternizing with anybody you disagree with...like a typical liberal snowflake.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

It was a big part of it. Lots of governments have WMDs. The Brits do, we do. The issue was not that the weapons existed, but that a bad actor had the weapons. It was easy to get dozens of nations on board to attack Iraq in large part because of the danger Saddam posed to the region, having previously started ugly wars with two of his neighbors.

No, it wasn't. [/quote]

I'm not pretending anything. I don't think the US and UK were lying.

Well then you should do some reading.

Also, what is your "This" supposed to be? I figured it was a link but not working. If it isn't a link, then please provide your evidence that the intelligence info was known to be false.

If you don't know what that image represents then you should stop commenting on this topic.

Targeting civilians and torture are considered war crimes. Those culpable should be tried, and in several cases, they have been. Are you suggesting George Bush tortured someone or ordered the targeting of civilians? He didn't.

Plausible deniability is your defense? Yikes.

My age is irrelevant, though I am likely older than you are. It is nonsense to suggest the coalition that invaded Iraq in 2003 was a farce. It wasn't. In what way to find it inferior to the coalition in 1992?

Your age is only important because you obviously don't know what you're talking about or you're being deliberately dishonest.
You don't know what the image is that I linked, you're acting like W's coalition was meaningful when it was a farce even at the time, you're acting like the reason we went to war was Saddam = Bad and WMDs that we LIED about, you're all over the place. So I suspect you're about 10-15 years younger than I am.

Again, what you have here is an argument that the Iraq War was ill advised and poorly executed. I tend to agree, though I wonder how historians will view it when emotions cool over the next few decades. Do you think JFK is a war criminal? How about Lyndon Johnson? How about Obama? Let's make it easier. How about you list a few post WW2 presidents who were not war criminals?

I don't think you have to wonder how historians think about it, unless you're wondering about historians in the year 2525.
And, yeah, most if not all of our post wwii POTUS probably qualify as war criminals. Is that your new defense, that of course he's a war criminal... looks like we've come full circle.

 

[Seano]

How crazy is it that people literally can't fathom 2 people with differing ideologies finding common ground ?

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

How crazy is it that people literally can't fathom 2 people with differing ideologies finding common ground ?