Generalising acts of violence into a whole religion is stupid, and also helps the enemy

[Big_Chief_Stove]

what is the basis for that statement, objectively speaking.

Islam teaches the following are acceptable:

Child Rape
Honor Killing
Death Penalty for Apostates
Jihad
Domestic abuse


That's substantially different than any other major religion.

Those who accept Sharia Law ARE extremists, we as a society have refused to label them as such though. Even progressive Muslims are down with Sharia Law, how "Progressive" could they be?

 

[seiger]

Ok fine. I'll admit that you're right if you can give an answer to this question. I'll admit all these crazy statistics only exist because these countries are undeveloped.

Can you name one undeveloped, non-Muslim country where you think that 60% of its women would believe that beating your wife is OK if she burns your food?

a lot of next generation muslims that do hold radical views,- again we are talking about radical minority- a lot of these people arent acting as instructed by their parents. they are radicalised by racism and by western media. their parents are often happy with the west, which is why they moved here and stayed here.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

please cite your assertion.

also if opinion polls were worth anything, britain would still be in europe and hillary would be president.

when i characterise muslims as peaceful, i would argue that a tiny outlier are involved in terrorism.

isis is 30,000 people in a religion of 1,500,000,000 people.

thats 0.002 percent.

they are essentially fighting an interstate war, akin to orwell in the spanish civil war. their values are beneath contempt, as are their methods, but are isis terrorists, or an army?

as for related terrorist attacks, thats a tiny number in comparison to the whole religion.

Sure ISIS is 30k....but how many Muslims identify with them or support their cause though?

 

[seiger]

Science does not care for human history. Science is what makes us builds us and works us.

Religious doctrine is a man made ideology that has ZERO relevance to space, time, gravity, science, biology. Absolutely nothing.


The only thing religious doctrine effects is us as a people which in turns allows us to affect environmental and other living creatures in the name of religious doctrine.


But we are talking about human interactions and behaviours among eachother. Many people of you believe a man made religious doctrine that has zero relevance to any other species, or anything for that matter than US the human species is the sole reason why people act like they do.


And yes religious doctrine has carved human history, history of a people so ignorant of science and undeveloped compared to the people today.

We are the new generation, the world is changing and Science is taking over.

two world wars put an end to modernist superiority conceit.

 

[dissolved]

80% of Muslims live in undeveloped countries, Pakistan is quite undeveloped.

That point is mute. Simple as that.

The only point you have is British Muslims and later generations. Which is a contributing factor of nuturer pushing oppressive ideologies into a child rather than Islamic doctrine directly causing this.

This is a generation of people who stemmed from third-world undeveloped thinking, came over to the third world and instilled their undeveloped ideology onto their offspring generation.

We should target the root of the problem, not the stem.

You ignored the fact that education, every opportunity came to Pakistan and the whole region, actually, hundreds of years ago. They are underdeveloped because of Islam. Period.

It is also why Christian countries are the most developed, livable.

But you can pretend this isn't true and propagate a lie. The truth will come out, however.

 

[seiger]

Islam teaches the following are acceptable:

Child Rape
Honor Killing
Death Penalty for Apostates
Jihad
Domestic abuse


That's substantially different than any other major religion.

Those who accept Sharia Law ARE extremists, we as a society have refused to label them as such though. Even progressive Muslims are down with Sharia Law, how "Progressive" could they be?

dude, we both know each of the judeo christian religions is full of dark passages. i dont know why you are ignoring these dark passages, when you are in fact talking through your own.

 

[Tycho]

Science does not care for human history. Science is what makes us builds us and works us.

Religious doctrine is a man made ideology that has ZERO relevance to space, time, gravity, science, biology. Absolutely nothing.


The only thing religious doctrine effects is us as a people which in turns allows us to affect environmental and other living creatures in the name of religious doctrine.


But we are talking about human interactions and behaviours among eachother. Many people of you believe a man made religious doctrine that has zero relevance to any other species, or anything for that matter than US the human species is the sole reason why people act like they do.


And yes religious doctrine has carved human history, history of a people so ignorant of science and undeveloped compared to the people today.

We are the new generation, the world is changing and Science is taking over.

You don't even know what 'science' is. And you even admit in your own post that ideology drives human behaviour. Everyone is affected by ideology, including you with your autistic 'science' splerging.

So now we agree on the effect of religion, what's your solution to Islamism exactly? Send them iphones?

 

[SlicerDM]

Science? A hahaha. Ok I'll bite. Show me the science comrade!

You know, this whole conversation becomes meaningless after you come face to face with someone willing to blow themselves apart just to kill you and your children.

Yah it does, but we used science to create weapons so we can live in our developed countries so we can stray away from the undeveloped humans regardless of their ideology.

We live in the first-world, which is also why religious doctrine isn't believed by every single person in our developed countries.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

well you've narrowed it down to 1.5bn people.

Within that 1.5 Bn is ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Hamas, Al Qaeda...etc.

There are Islamic terror groups all over the Middle East and plenty of people who support them. ISIS is not unique.

 

[seiger]

Sure ISIS is 30k....but how many Muslims identify with them or support their cause though?

um, the ones that moved to their "islamic state".

muslims in the west actually fund their slaughter, so idk...

and why do you guys always ignore the kurds when talking about isis. the kurds are muslim too.

 

[seiger]

You ignored the fact that education, every opportunity came to Pakistan and the whole region, actually, hundreds of years ago. They are underdeveloped because of Islam. Period.

It is also why Christian countries are the most developed, livable.

But you can pretend this isn't true and propagate a lie. The truth will come out, however.

no, the enlightenment is why most christian nations are able to discuss things outside the prism, or prison of religion. muslims were partially responsible for the enlightenment and also you are ignoring things like slavery and genocide and the impact that had on western wealth and prosperity.

also war after war after war helped develop a lot of western science.

there are many examples of educated muslim societies and intelligent muslims, you ignore. also pakistan didnt exist 100s of years ago.

and pakistan has had a female leader, unlike america.

 

[BrianFantana]

Malcolm X once said the sword of truth cuts both ways.

There is an enemy, that wants to kill us, that wants to behead us, and that wants the whole world to be a shitty place with no music and no jews in existence, and to destroy america as we know it.

And thats just the nazis.

The far right, many of whom are reading this, ready to bark filth about genocide and race, sorry religion traitoring at me, are a much bigger threat to us than Islamic militants. However, groups like ISIS and AQ exist and exist to harm us. Theres no two ways about that.

My issue with those of you who have an IQ over egg plant, is often not that you discriminate, but that you dont discriminate enough.

It isnt just non PC to hate 1/4 of the planet who are muslim; it isnt just intellectually retarded to do so; it actually helps the militants, because it feeds a divide between religions, and radicalises the centrists.

And thats exactly what its designed to do. The far right use it as a scapegoat to gain control. It is easy to do so when you live in a nation of 0.9% muslims, and tv is a heat seeking missile trained on tiny numbers who commit atrocities. The overwhelming output of the media in the states is demonising normal people in a false stereotype that echoes history, and is completely out of touch with reality. The terrorists win because it marginalises normal people who happen to be muslim, and it also focuses people on 1.5bn people, rather than focusing on the actual enemy, which is relatively tiny.

There are only 2 kinds of people in this world, cool ones, and motherfucking arseholes, and if you want a dividing line, look at those who want to harm innocent civilians and youll see a chasm.

Whenever you read responses barking about muslims, imagine you are reading the same post about americans, or white people or jews, and you will see the insanity of what is written.

If you cant defeat your own ignorance, you have no hope of winning a battle against someone elses.

Come at me.

You undermine what are a series of valid points, if lacking nuance, through the use of phrases like "intellectually retarded". Clean it up.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

Tell the Banu Qurayza about that civil behaviour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

civil behavior for the time period.

look at some of the shit the christian justinian did.

theres a reason when given the choice, the jews prefered the islamic empire to the byzantine.

 

[dissolved]

a lot of next generation muslims that do hold radical views,- again we are talking about radical minority- a lot of these people arent acting as instructed by their parents. they are radicalised by racism and by western media. their parents are often happy with the west, which is why they moved here and stayed here.

They came to the West because Islam is intollerable. They all do it. Then in old age they revert back to Islamism and push it on their children and grandchildren. Which is how countries are ruined, turned into Islamic unlivable countries.

And the saddest part it's all due to a falsified history. There was no Abrahamic Mecca. There wasn't even a Muhammadan Mecca. A million other falsifications.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

Was the last bit directed at me?

not necessarily. i was just attempting to hedge my bets.

I overall am not a huge fan of the "Big Three" religions better known as the Abrahamic religions frankly. The histories of all three are colossally fucked in many ways.

My biggest issue with Islam is even in modern renditions of the texts they talk about how to kill infidels and such in them (at least, that was my understanding when I was studying this shit about 2-3 years ago).

It makes it so the despots and extremists think they have an allowance from God, Allah, or whateverthefuck you want to call it to do what they do.

fair enough. they do need an enlightenment. a reformation. but both of those for the christians began with more blood. lots more, even though in the long run they were good things.

 

[seiger]

Within that 1.5 Bn is ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Shabab, Hamas, Al Qaeda...etc.

There are Islamic terror groups all over the Middle East and plenty of people who support them. ISIS is not unique.

lots of groups, but show me the numbers and ill show you a tiny outlier minority.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

um, the ones that moved to their "islamic state".

muslims in the west actually fund their slaughter, so idk...

and why do you guys always ignore the kurds when talking about isis. the kurds are muslim too.

Muslims all around the globe support ISIS, their supporters don't all live within Iraq and Syria.

The Phillipines and Indonesia both have Islamic terror problems as well.

Would you agree that the Muslims who believe that Sharia Law should be universal law should be considered extremist or radical?

 

[seiger]

They came to the West because Islam is intollerable. They all do it. Then in old age they revert back to Islamism and push it on their children and grandchildren. Which is how countries are ruined, turned into Islamic unlivable countries.

And the saddest part it's all due to a falsified history. There was no Abrahamic Mecca. There wasn't even a Muhammadan Mecca. A million other falsifications.

well no, you are full of shit there.

1 they came to the west because of our involvement in their lands.
2 they came because we asked them to - post ww2.
3 they came for economic reasons.

the empire needed the commonwealth to bail it out post war and help build up its failing nation.

 

[Rod1]

so you hate reggae music because they hate gays.

you ignore that drugs can enslave and also spill over from individual issues to social issues.

this thread is full of people that want to bring in thought police and fascism.

I dont care about Reagge music, i would certainly care about Reagge religion if they do hate gays.

 

[Gregolian]

not necessarily. i was just attempting to hedge my bets.



fair enough. they do need an enlightenment. a reformation. but both of those for the christians began with more blood. lots more, even though in the long run they were good things.

I don't think they'll get one.

I have a couple friends (admittedly this is anecdotal) that came to the States from Somalia, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia and they are ALL of the opinion, the religion is so centered on the old school barbarian days that the "moderate" (and that's THEM using air quotes as they believe there is no such thing as moderate Muslims) Muslims will never truly speak out against extremists either because they are too scared or they partially agree and don't want to say they do so that Westerners don't go after them.

They all say they feel culturally, the religion is too much a part of the culture/politics that the politics will never allow a Reformation or Enlightenment because the governments view that as a threat to their power structure.