general fight training regimen??

[egb18c]

I have been searching for a bit now, and skimmed through the 74 pages for about an hour on the conditioning thread. And it seemes like no one can really give an answer,

Basically i have been MMA training for 2years now. and i just had my 4th fight. my first 3 went well and lasted under 1:30 i just had my 4th fight, and it went the distance.. i won first round, and gassed misserably in the 2nd and somehow made it out of the 3rd. it was my first loss all do to fatique:icon_sad: .i only do 9min fights. at first i couldn't understand for the life of me why i gassed. I trained 4times a week, twice daily, for 4weeks..

however i just learned about aerobic, and anerobic cardio training.. I completely left out the aerobic training, or LSD. i was always training at a high pace, getting heart rate up to 180-185 for maybe 2-4 min. 2ith 5-10 min break! reading searching this forum for a few hours i have learned about the importance of LSD.. i know it's sad 2years of MMA training, and i am a cardio noOb! haha

anyway, as much as i have learned through browsing, i still would like to see a 4week break down of exactly what i should do to beable to be in top notch cardio shape for a 3rd 3min fight.

the only thing i came across by browsing is one member saying, to do LSD the first 3weeks, and last week do anerobic, such as latters,burpees,sprint etc... something to get the MHR at 90% for 20-30sec with 1 min br3eak. Nobody else responded to his post, so looking for some feedback if this is a good way of training.. and is 4weeks really necessary to prepare for a 9 min fight?

 

[James Fuller]

What a great thread! I am currently training for my 8th fight and have just now (thanks EZA!) started a more scientific approach to conditioning beyond "train really really hard" lol here are some things that go overlooked in his advice.

Aerobic condition is something that needs to be developed in your off season (before you take a fight basically) so your BASE is ready to be improved via your heavier anaerobic conditionining that leads immediately up to a fight. So you are prob too late for this fight but start anyway because it (your left ventricle) is something that grows with time. Also, stretching your heart size thus increasing cardiac output gets harder once you have strengthened your heart walls via anaerobic conditioning so expect to work harder than the average bear to get your resting HR down.

Other than that I can't help you I find these runs very difficult to get in my regimen because i am either lifting or mma training 6 days a week so I have been trying desperately to make it work now that I am more than 60 days from my next fight. I have actually been subbing them for days where i feel so worn down from lifting or beat up that normally I wouldnt train, like later on in the week and that has def helped me avoid overtraining as well as focusing my energies on what I need to improve aka my cardiac output

 

[DrBdan]

What a great thread! I am currently training for my 8th fight and have just now (thanks EZA!) started a more scientific approach to conditioning beyond "train really really hard" lol here are some things that go overlooked in his advice.

Aerobic condition is something that needs to be developed in your off season (before you take a fight basically) so your BASE is ready to be improved via your heavier anaerobic conditionining that leads immediately up to a fight. So you are prob too late for this fight but start anyway because it (your left ventricle) is something that grows with time. Also, stretching your heart size thus increasing cardiac output gets harder once you have strengthened your heart walls via anaerobic conditioning so expect to work harder than the average bear to get your resting HR down.

Other than that I can't help you I find these runs very difficult to get in my regimen because i am either lifting or mma training 6 days a week so I have been trying desperately to make it work now that I am more than 60 days from my next fight. I have actually been subbing them for days where i feel so worn down from lifting or beat up that normally I wouldnt train, like later on in the week and that has def helped me avoid overtraining as well as focusing my energies on what I need to improve aka my cardiac output

How often do you lift? If you are already sufficiently strong you could swap some lifting for LSD work. Also, LSD work shouldn't be too taxing so if possible you could do it in the morning on days that you do skill work in the evening (assuming that fits your schedule).

 

[pliftkl]

anyway, as much as i have learned through browsing, i still would like to see a 4week break down of exactly what i should do to beable to be in top notch cardio shape for a 3rd 3min fight.

I think the problem is that what I need to do to be in "top cardio shape" and what you need to do to be in "top cardio shape" and what anyone else needs to do might be completely different.

Joel Jamieson's (EZA) book is really worth getting, as it talks through some of the ways that you can determine what YOU need to be working on.

Probably the most useful initial metric would be what your resting heart rate is. If it's over 60, then I'd focus first on getting that down.

 

[James Fuller]

How often do you lift? If you are already sufficiently strong you could swap some lifting for LSD work. Also, LSD work shouldn't be too taxing so if possible you could do it in the morning on days that you do skill work in the evening (assuming that fits your schedule).

Well my lifting schedule is a product of a realization that I needed to add functional strength and a bit of mass after a year solid of 5 plus nights a week simply doing Mma muay thai and bjj classes really focusing on technique and fight cardio so I am reluctant to cut back too much for a bit until I realize my goals there.

Anyway I lift 2 days a week, tueday Sunday than Thursday Tuesday the next week to keep rest consistant. I do three lifts only; squat deadlift and bench each 5x5. Than core and grip work. Clocks in at about 1 hour 30 only a hour for the heavy lifts bc I tend to believe in diminishing returns after that point.

Monday Wednesday and sat are 2 hour mma classes Friday is always off and I take whichever day I have off from lifting to do a 5 mile jog at a very very moderate pace to keep my hrf down just like you mean about lsd not being too taxing. I am also a kindergarten teacher so evenings are what I got plus I like training at around the same times I fight, keeps my rythum fight day I guess.

 

[paolo27th]

TS I think you`re missing one important point. The idea of conditioning is to be in shape ALL the time. You shouldn`t spend the last 4 weeks trying to get in shape. That should be fight prep time where you concentrate on sparring, drilling, developing your gameplan etc.

Spend the time between fights to get in shape by doing your high volume/low intensity aerobic work, then as the fight approaches spend 3 weeks concentrating on lower volume/higher intensity work and cut off gpp altogether the last 1.5 weeks.

 

[egb18c]

TS I think you`re missing one important point. The idea of conditioning is to be in shape ALL the time. You shouldn`t spend the last 4 weeks trying to get in shape.

Spend the time between fights to get in shape by doing your high volume/low intensity aerobic work, then as the fight approaches spend 3 weeks concentrating on lower volume/higher intensity work and cut off gpp altogether the last 1.5 weeks.

i am always in low volume/high intensity shape, just from MMA training 4 times a week. how often should i add LSD to my weekly schedule? 40min jog twice a weeK? and what is gpp?

 

[DannyT]

i am always in low volume/high intensity shape, just from MMA training 4 times a week. how often should i add LSD to my weekly schedule? 40min jog twice a weeK? and what is gpp?

Add it in slowly. Start off with 30 minutes 3 times a week, then increase the volume and frequency over time.

 

[JZT]

You should probably do strength training once or twice a week and work your HIIT in or around it and then do LSD the rest of the days with one day off a week.

Something like this:

Day 1: Strength / HIIT
Day 2: LSD and/or Training
Day 3: LSD and/or Training
Day 4: LSD and/or Training
Day 5: Strength / HIIT
Day 6: LSD and/or Training
Day 7: Off

 

[DrBdan]

Well my lifting schedule is a product of a realization that I needed to add functional strength and a bit of mass after a year solid of 5 plus nights a week simply doing Mma muay thai and bjj classes really focusing on technique and fight cardio so I am reluctant to cut back too much for a bit until I realize my goals there.

Anyway I lift 2 days a week, tueday Sunday than Thursday Tuesday the next week to keep rest consistant. I do three lifts only; squat deadlift and bench each 5x5. Than core and grip work. Clocks in at about 1 hour 30 only a hour for the heavy lifts bc I tend to believe in diminishing returns after that point.

Monday Wednesday and sat are 2 hour mma classes Friday is always off and I take whichever day I have off from lifting to do a 5 mile jog at a very very moderate pace to keep my hrf down just like you mean about lsd not being too taxing. I am also a kindergarten teacher so evenings are what I got plus I like training at around the same times I fight, keeps my rythum fight day I guess.

At a certain point you have to pick your priorities so if getting stronger is one of them you will have to put conditioning on the back burner and just do enough to maintain your current level of fitness.

In regards to your lifting, do you just do squat, deadlift and bench every time you lift? You should look into something that includes an overhead press and more pulling e.g. the 2 day split from the FAQ.

 

[James Fuller]

At a certain point you have to pick your priorities so if getting stronger is one of them you will have to put conditioning on the back burner and just do enough to maintain your current level of fitness.
In regards to your lifting, do you just do squat, deadlift and bench every time you lift? You should look into something that includes an overhead press and more pulling e.g. the 2 day split from the FAQ.

Yup! thats why I am prioritizing strength over aerobic conditioning these days. Never gassed yet in a fight but def have been outmuscled before!

And I should have mentioned that I do pullups as part of my grip work, doing gi pullups, fat bar pullups or one handed pullups as a way to simultanously work both my grip (one of the most UNDERRATED tools in a grapplers toolbox) and those pulling muscles you so rightfully mentioned

and yes I was on a split much like the 2 day and 3 day split in the FAQ for quite awhile and its great but I feel like I (not speaking for other people) ended up doing too many support lifts and just not enough time doing the actual lifts I wanted to get stronger at. and as a relative SC newbie (only 2 serious years spent lifting all told including prior sports) I feel like the basic lifts 1. Needed the most attention cause I had the most to improve in those lifts and 2. give me the most bang for my buck as they recuit the most muscle groups so they are more time effective and for anyone besides longtime lifters/already strong men getting better at these lifts translates to greater functional strength IMO as like in mma those motions require your whole body not isolated muscles.

Also, doing a 5x5 program at 90% 1RM demands longer resttimes and mixing in additional lifts makes the session last too long to be physiologically optimal. All lit I have read makes me leery to lift for too long (longer than 1 and 1/2 hours basically)

That being said, recently I have been doing research into the effectiveness of the overhead press and I agree that I would use it in there somewhere and probably as far

 

[Indivdude]

Also, doing a 5x5 program at 90% 1RM demands longer resttimes and mixing in additional lifts makes the session last too long to be physiologically optimal. All lit I have read makes me leery to lift for too long (longer than 1 and 1/2 hours basically)

Would you care to expand on this part? Is it the hormone aspect of it that it declines the longer you work out? Because if so, I thought that was debunked as having no real effect on your workout.

 

[James Fuller]

Would you care to expand on this part? Is it the hormone aspect of it that it declines the longer you work out? Because if so, I thought that was debunked as having no real effect on your workout.

The 60/90-minute limit is to do with optimizing growth hormone response and protein resynthesis following training, plus maximizing your work density. As far as I have read that has not been debunked but we all know how often science switches its advice up for us as well as disagreement in the field anyone remember how eggs used to be the best thing for you? Than the worst? Than back to being good? lol

Plus I figure if your going longer than that you are probably overlifting in each session. people tend to believe more is always best when really your recovery and off times are when you are truely building that muscle tissue, your workout is whats designed to break it down!

 

[James Fuller]

On the flipside there is this school of thought too...


How long can my lifting sessions last? I heard that after 60 minutes, you start to lose muscle.
How long can my lifting sessions last? I heard that after 60 minutes, you start to lose muscle.
Another example of the myth of generalization. You'll hear it all ... at 60 minutes, cortisol magically kicks in and you begin losing muscle by the buckets, etc etc.

The answer is that there is no real set limit. Most people do train too long, because they either take the workouts of elite athletes with superior genetics and access to advanced recovery methods, or they take the workouts of steroid-enhanced lifters, and then try to apply those to their own situation. This is a recipe for disaster.

On the other hand, elite and Olympic athletes regularly endure training schedules that exceed several hours per day, and they have no issue outperforming most other people in the world.
The answer is that you must find the mix that works best for you. Understand that more is not better, but that if you are adequately recovering, taking in the right nutrients, managing stress, etc, that you can certainly train for longer periods than an hour.

The average person that I train who works a full time job can handle between 45 minutes - 1 hr 30 minutes of actual training. The older, the less time. This is actually hitting the weights - the sessions may be longer because I integrate control drills, warm-up, and thorough stretching as well.

So I guess there is a level of personal flex too it as well. I mean I am already lifting/running/training over 30 hours a week on top of having a full-time job as a teacher, which is just too stressful to mentally handle any longer than 2 total hours (when counting in contrast baths stretching etc) of gym time on my "off" nights. Compounded with my belief that people fail in their programs because they make them impossible to uphold in the long run, overtrain constantly or do such hard sessions early in the week they are forced to skip later on. Personally I would rather be consistent, even if my per session gain isnt what it could be I tend to think being able to life more times a week and maintain the program for the long haul end up making up for it and than some.