Gender Inequality in STEM: You have to be pretty educated to be this stupid

[EndlessCritic]

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2018/04/08/the-man-whos-fighting-girls-mathematophobia.html

Article in the Toronto Star today about gender inequality in STEM. They've got a professor who makes the following (correct) observations:

Mourifié, through his research, concludes there are significant non-pecuniary reasons for the disparity.

Mourifié asserts that many girls develop what he calls “mathemaphobia” and avoid math as they progress through school. That, he proposes, is at the root of the gender disparity in STEM jobs.

He believes that anxiety must be addressed in the early years of primary school before girls begin rejecting math as a viable option and thereby shut themselves out of future opportunities in STEM fields. His Ottawa presentation included research that suggests by Grade 2 both boys and girls have already begun to associate math with males.

Great point. So now we need to discuss why young girls are averse to math relative to boys.

It didn’t make any sense, Mourifié thought. Math isn’t an innate skill; there shouldn’t be such a dramatic gender disparity.

This is a strange assumption. It's an empirical question as to whether there are innate gender differences between genders in aptitude and interest in math. By this logic, we shouldn't observe any gender differences in throwing a ball, since throwing a ball isn't an innate skill any more than math is.

This article then manages to go from bad to worse. It (correctly) suggests that rather than being innate, observed gender differences in math interest is probably being caused because elementary teachers are disproportionately math-averse women.

Mourifié told the Ottawa gathering that 84 per cent of Canadian elementary school teachers are female — a number supported by Statistics Canada in 2011 — and, often, they have not graduated university in math fields. He cited a study that concluded math-anxious female elementary teachers impair the math achievement of female students.

Unfortunately, there's one small problem with this viewpoint:

Jennifer Flanagan is the co-founder and CEO of Actua, a charitable body that engages Canadian youth in STEM education. While she takes issue with putting the onus on female elementary teachers since that “argument is placing the blame on women,” she says her organization agrees that a greater investment must be made in teaching STEM in the early grades.

Yes, that's right. We have an observed "problem" (it's not really clear that gender inequality in STEM is a problem anymore than gender inequality in sanitation work is a problem), and yet we aren't even allowed to entertain some explanations because they "place the blame on women". (It's not really clear either how it is blaming women that math-averse women are disproportionately elementary school teachers.)

Idiocy. Idiocy everywhere.

 

[IDL]

Since when is math associated with males in grade 2?

When they start talking about gender associations is grade 2, that typically means they are advocating for 'psychological intervention' / social engineering on children like they are lab experiments.

 

[The ScorpioN]

Interesting take.

Here's an odd result that was observed:

Countries with greater gender equality see a smaller proportion of women taking degrees in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM), a new study has found.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180214150132.htm

Must be dat dere Western patriarchy keeping the fairer sex down. We need some policy to make sure women do what they're not interested in doing, they obviously can't be trusted with their sense of agency.

 

[all caps]

Women want to be animals, while men want to be god

 

[nostradumbass]

The only way to ensure freedom for women is to force them into the areas we want them. I think we can all agree that these brilliant women are too stupid to know what they want. In soviet Russia, career chooses you.

 

[spin]

es, that's right. We have an observed "problem" (it's not really clear that gender inequality in STEM is a problem anymore than gender inequality in sanitation work is a problem), and yet we aren't even allowed to entertain some explanations because they "place the blame on women". (It's not really clear either how it is blaming women that math-averse women are disproportionately elementary school teachers.)

lets read this together

Jennifer Flanagan is the co-founder and CEO of Actua, a charitable body that engages Canadian youth in STEM education. While she takes issue with putting the onus on female elementary teachers since that “argument is placing the blame on women,” she says her organization agrees that a greater investment must be made in teaching STEM in the early grades.

so she disagrees with the reasoning, but agrees with the cure.


the fuck are you whining about?

 

[splendica]

Since when is math associated with males in grade 2?

When they start talking about gender associations is grade 2, that typically means they are advocating for 'psychological intervention' / social engineering on children like they are lab experiments.

 

[Prokofievian]

Interesting take.

Here's an odd result that was observed:



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180214150132.htm

Must be dat dere Western patriarchy keeping the fairer sex down. We need some policy to make sure women do what they're not interested in doing, they obviously can't be trusted with their sense of agency.

Interesting article. But I noticed that they were still approaching the matter from wanting to increase female participation in STEM fields, which is clearly cuckery.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Just need to introduce Actuarial Barbey next Christmas

 

[bobgeese]

It couldn’t possibly be they’re, on average, just less interested?

 

[splendica]

It couldn’t possibly be they’re, on average, just less interested?

 

[irish_thug]

In soviet Russia, career chooses you.

I hate sound like I'm supporting commie ideals, but there is some merit to that.

 

[all caps]

I hate sound like I'm supporting commie ideals, but there is some merit to that.

I think I'm gonna move to Canada. I appreciate the way you guys present yourselves. You don't seem pushy like us Americans.

I now identify is a canuck.

 

[irish_thug]

I think I'm gonna move to Canada. I appreciate the way you guys present yourselves. You don't seem pushy like us Americans.

I now identify is a canuck.

Hope you like the cold. I hit a white out on my way home last night.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I find it telling that this concern over gender inequality doesn't appear to extend beyond highly lucrative careers, with big social prestige, like those in STEM or executive management.

For example, I've never seen an article decrying the under representation of females in the fields of auto mechanics or truck driving. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

This inconsistency strikes me as both highly elitist and highly entitled. It's as if to say that working class women can take whatever the hell jobs they want to. Who cares.

But white collar women need to be prodded in certain directions and molded for certain positions. And if they don't follow those leads something in society must be dangerously wrong on a structural level.

 

[Prokofievian]

I find it telling that this concern over gender inequality doesn't appear to extend beyond highly lucrative careers, with big social prestige, like those in STEM or executive management.

For example, I've never seen an article decrying the under representation of females in the fields of auto mechanics or truck driving. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

This inconsistency strikes me as both highly elitist and highly entitled. It's as if to say that working class women can take whatever the hell jobs they want to. Who cares.

But white collar women need to be prodded in certain directions and molded for certain positions. And if they don't follow those leads something in society must be dangerously wrong on a structural level.

I see quite a lot of ''women in the trades'' initiatives, actually. In fact, my friend the sargon fan who is always a-rustle about all things gender politics sent me an advertisement for one such initiative in which he believed there was a mistake. The mistake was that she was holding a cutting torch while she was meant to be a welder. Turns out my friend had just never heard of oxy-acetylene welding before.

Predictably, goal posts were moved.

 

[Spoken]

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2018/04/08/the-man-whos-fighting-girls-mathematophobia.html

Article in the Toronto Star today about gender inequality in STEM. They've got a professor who makes the following (correct) observations:



Great point. So now we need to discuss why young girls are averse to math relative to boys.

This is a strange assumption. It's an empirical question as to whether there are innate gender differences between genders in aptitude and interest in math. By this logic, we shouldn't observe any gender differences in throwing a ball, since throwing a ball isn't an innate skill any more than math is.

This article then manages to go from bad to worse. It (correctly) suggests that rather than being innate, observed gender differences in math interest is probably being caused because elementary teachers are disproportionately math-averse women.



Unfortunately, there's one small problem with this viewpoint:

Yes, that's right. We have an observed "problem" (it's not really clear that gender inequality in STEM is a problem anymore than gender inequality in sanitation work is a problem), and yet we aren't even allowed to entertain some explanations because they "place the blame on women". (It's not really clear either how it is blaming women that math-averse women are disproportionately elementary school teachers.)

Idiocy. Idiocy everywhere.

seems easiest to say: for some reason or another, women did less math. But most teachers are women, and thus fail to cultivate interest in math for young girls, thereby rendering the field dominated by men.
You can keep the fundaments of the data without an ideological concern for "blame."

I'd be interested in whether or not women are generally better or worse as math. An interest in math by young girls strikes me as a dubious thing to measure considering the roles children assume at such an early age.

 

[jrams]

It would be easier to just teach less Canadian men STEM and get those numbers in line.

 

[ocfightfan]

I find it telling that this concern over gender inequality doesn't appear to extend beyond highly lucrative careers, with big social prestige, like those in STEM or executive management.

For example, I've never seen an article decrying the under representation of females in the fields of auto mechanics or truck driving. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

This inconsistency strikes me as both highly elitist and highly entitled. It's as if to say that working class women can take whatever the hell jobs they want to. Who cares.

But white collar women need to be prodded in certain directions and molded for certain positions. And if they don't follow those leads something in society must be dangerously wrong on a structural level.

I'm very interested in solving the gender inequality problem in the brick laying and roofing industries.

 

[MiniCraque]

It couldn’t possibly be they’re, on average, just less interested?

This is correct, and it is due to societal roles applied to boys and girls.

This is an interesting topic, but Shitdog is not the best place to debate it. A few too many here are the women-loathing type who would jump at the opportunity to afirm that women are irrational animals. All that resentment and cultural stereotypes can sometimes get in the way.

There are a few studies that have identified a strong correlation between gender inequality and gender gap in math tests. That is to say, girls are told they're bad at math (because reasons), therefore they are. It's a positive feedback loop and a self-fulfilling prophecy at the same time.