1. Come join Sherdog.com writers Ant Walker and Jason Burgos for our live video chat series titled "The Trenches," LIVE NOW, Click Here!

Gary Shaw- Good promoter in Hindsight ?

Discussion in 'Worldwide MMA Discussion' started by manboy<3, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. manboy<3

    manboy<3 don't card me bro

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Location:
    Weaboo World
    What do you guys think about Gary Shaw as a promoter now that we have seen how bad Coker and Sakakibara san really are ?

    Gary and his son, the always sublime $kala made stars:

    Gina Carano - The original Ronda Rousey and a way better looker and actress

    Kimbo Slice - The original Connor McCregor..Mike Tyson esque boxing and real motherfucking G's type of attitude.."that's how we eat..homie!"

    On the other hand how many stars has Coker made? How many stars have the new owners of the UFC made ? How many stars has Sakakibara san made?

    Gary Shaw used to be bashed a lot on here but IMO a solid promoter ...

    BTW, this is worth quoting from an article in 2007 or so

    "It's time someone said it. Gary Shaw should be arrested for what he's doing to MMA. Elite XC is a joke of company. It looks more like a company run by Vince McMahon. After watching last nights event, my blood is boiling.

    To think that people who have never seen an MMA event before saw that event and thought they were seeing the real thing is heart breaking. What they watched was anything but Elite. With the out of shape, overweight fighters, the cheerleaders, the dancing fighters in sequence robes and the rappers, I thought I was watching the next wrestlemania. I wouldn't have been surprised to see the WWE writers in the back of the arena hard at work
    ."

    How blind people are to greatness...
     
  2. skylolow

    skylolow Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,344
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    Hell No,

    $kala alone is a good enough reason.

    They overpaid for some key people and that is about it.

    I don't call anyone a great promoter that drives his company in the dirt. Anyone with money or backers can go out and do MMA. They may even look good doing it for a small fraction in time but if it isn't self sustainable it just won't last and that is the single biggest issue with all these orgs that come and go.

    Coker has made/found some damn good fighters with Strikeforce. I don't agree he is great promoter though as I have issues with a lot of what he has done with Strikeforce and Bellator. I think he's a great people person and should be more in the business of talent relations than promoting.

    Sak. has a long list of some damn good fighters from his pass that he help become stars in the MMA world. It's just in today's landscape of MMA its hard to build a star.



    P.S.: Building stars doesn't really land fully on the door step of the promoter. Usually when promoters try to push someone on you it blows up (ie: Sage Northcutt as recent example). Fighter's themselves are much more responsible for their own stardom. Look at guy like Chael as a perfect example of this. Even Conor falls into this. What promoters can do is once they recognize a fighter moving the needle they can help the process along and push that fighter. But the fighter isn't doing the steps to get noticed good luck making fans care about him or her. Promoters try to collect talent in hoping some turn into stars.
     
    A.S. Deep likes this.
  3. DarkneT

    DarkneT Bones is GOAT, change my mind Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    15,570
    Likes Received:
    23,456
    Location:
    Lancashire England
    He had a good idea what he was doing to be fair and did some creative shit for his time

    I can’t believe they thought they would make a star out of KJ Noons though.. that was criminal
     
    cheesus likes this.
  4. InfinityLens

    InfinityLens Black Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes Received:
    1,663
    Bellator is apparently profitable now, don't jump the gun and say Coker is a bad promoter.

    Saki, we will see. Best of luck to him and my favorite org...

    ...RIZIN!
     
    FKA likes this.
  5. manboy<3

    manboy<3 don't card me bro

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Location:
    Weaboo World
    Saki was a good promoter when the market was there...but he is out of touch with what Japanese people want these days (variety show)...he is making changes but too slow to survive in the long term IMO..Beter promoter than Coker however..

    Coker had BOTH Gina Carano and Ronda Rousey in his roster but FAILED to do anything with them with Strikeforce...that's that kind of promoter he is..he neither makes nor is able to use stars...he couldn't use nick diaz he couldn't use Fedor etc..he couldn't even use Kimbo properly (Elite XC had Kimbo give a 7.7 million peak..Coker's Kimbo had something like a 1.5 mill peak)

    Also Bellator is profitable now because DAZN gave them 30 mill in 2019...after Bellator has run 10 shows then it may happen that Bellator will be unprofitable again..

    DAZN deal had little to do with Coker IMO

    By the way, in 2008 the media was basically 99% pro Zuffa..have a read of this from an "MMA journalist"

    "Then there's the middle weight champion. I have a lot of respect for Robbie Lawler. He was a great fighter, but not anymore. Not to long ago he couldn't beat the 2nd rate fighters of the UFC, and now he's a title holder? Lawler belongs in someone's corner or behind a mic, not wearing a belt. It just goes to show the level of fighters they have in the "Elite" XC."

    that shows what kind of thing EliteXC were up against..just constant hate and propaganda by Zuffa paid trolls..

    Also, Elite XC had to shut down due to FALSE allegations ...basically more foul play by ZUFFA (LA MAFIA) run UFC at that time..Coker had it way more easu and did way less
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019 at 8:11 PM
  6. manboy<3

    manboy<3 don't card me bro

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Location:
    Weaboo World
    How is sage a bad example ? He was popular and he was way underpaid relative to the interest that he was bringing in..IMO a promoter's job is to find and create interesting personalities that people will want to watch in an MMA fight..most of the world don't care about who Conor, Fedor, Tito, Ken SHamrock, Ronda etc are fighting, they could be fighting a guy in a tomato can suit and people will tune in because people care about fighters and not fights..only the hardcore whine about fights the casuals like me just care about seeing our faourite fighters do something inside a ring/cage

    Gary shaw was a great promoter...he made fights fun and he made stars from Kimbo and Gina..Coker has made exactly 0 stars despite trying super hard..like with MVP..now that's a sign of a bad promoter
     
  7. FKA

    FKA THAT BELLATOR GUY/World Cup of MMA Ringmaster

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    2,286
    Location:
    Valley 2 the Bay.....Modesto/Newark CA

    Gina was a decent star for that time you gotta remember that was before Wmma was on anyones radar Coker did ALOT for wmma.Rousey wasn't popular until the UFC PR machine drove crazy statements down our throat like her being able to best male fighters or have a boxing career LMFAO.He used kimbo greatly in bellator he still has records of viewers because of kimbo.

    DAZN gives them 30 million every year they will be profitable every year they have the DAZN deal and your a fool if you think Coker wasn't massively a part of negotiating that deal.(he's also negotiated new TV deals and broadcasting deals globally since joining bellator)


    ELITEXC was not elite......ever.
     
  8. Pliny Pete

    Pliny Pete Puts Butts In Seats

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    14,506
    Likes Received:
    34,622
    Location:
    Taco Truck On The Corner
    Coker built StrikeForce into a national powerhouse with an insane roster of talent
     
  9. skylolow

    skylolow Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,344
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    And where is Sage now.....ONE simply because the UFC felt they have done everything for him. His pay wasn't worth his skills in the cage. Yes they pushed the hell out of him and it helped him gain some stardom but didn't really make people tune in for Sage. Personally, Sage kind of seemed like what WME would want in a fighter. Someone they could market in all kinds of ways based on his looks, athletic ability, like able persona, and not worry about him showing up on TMZ doing something dumb.

    Many of the biggest stars ever in this sport have one thing in common with both casuals and hardcore fans, their polarizing in and out of the cage. They made people care about them outside of their skills. The day of just being a great fighter and being the biggest draw are over. No one can make someone polarizing. That is up to that person to have that ability. The perfect example of this is the WWE. Vince controls every aspect of what the fan see's and he has a hard time making stars and has said numerous times he doesn't have the ability to make stars.

    I still don't get why someone would think Gary Shaw was great promoter with MMA. Kimbo was a youtube star he brought in. He didn't build Kimbo from the ground up or anywhere near it. Now Gina was a good pick up. Even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in a while is what I chalk Gary Shaw as with Gina. Let's be honest with Gina, she was put on our TV's at the perfect time and had skills and the looks in a world of dudes. So I give Shaw credit for that. He did get some doors open on the business side because of his boxing success. But the big picture is he didn't do much for the sport of MMA overall or his promotion that hemorrhage money from day one and is nothing but distance memory for most if they even remember Elite XC.
     
  10. leto1776

    leto1776 Sherdog Wet Shaver Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Messages:
    23,787
    Likes Received:
    29,467
    Location:
    The Burgh ,PA
    Gary Shaw was a dog shit promoter, and brought down multiple promotions with him when he failed.

    He had two divisions worth talking about. That's it.
     
  11. Fluffernutter

    Fluffernutter Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    7,721
    Likes Received:
    6,948
    The promotion folded because after Seth Petruzulli beat Kimbo Slice, he stated :

    "The promoters kinda hinted to me and they gave me the money to stand and throw with him, they didn't want me to take him down. Let's just put it that way. It was worth my while to try and stand up punch him."

    The public saw this as one step away from a fixed fight. This put a lot of pressure on CBS.

    So, its gone now.

    If Shaw would have not told Seth to keep it standing, the organization may still be around.

    Odd, because it not like Seth was a grappler in the first place.
     
  12. VulcanNervPinch

    VulcanNervPinch Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    14,065
    Likes Received:
    6,203
  13. The Reed

    The Reed Red Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    7,942
    Likes Received:
    2,244
    Having a better (male)roster of any weight than the UFC is damn impressive post pride.
     
  14. HHJ

    HHJ Jeg reiser til mørkets dyp der alt er dødt.

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Messages:
    62,748
    Likes Received:
    44,383
    SLEAZE BAG PIGGY
     
  15. Kingz

    Kingz Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    16,514
    Likes Received:
    16,622
    Location:
    West Sacramento, CA
    Gary Shaw is a good promoter. He’s had success at MMA and Boxing. This isn’t hindsight either. I thought that then. However. He was the most openly shady American promoters as well and is known to have paid Seth extra to not rassle Kimbo and expose him like James Thompson did. I’ve also heard from multiple personal sauces that a local fighter was kicked out of his gym for throwing a fight to Kimbo Slice in EliteXC.
     
    manboy<3 likes this.
  16. BigBadKraken

    BigBadKraken White Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    161
    From a UK standpoint, it was excellent because the whole Elite XC CageRage thing meant that London was getting a sniff of international fightrs and seemingly a good partnership of sorts.
    Once the Elite died off, Cage Rage reverted to type of local 0-4 cockneys slugging it out for £200 in front of a boozed up crowd.

    Thanks Petruzelli.
     
  17. Communion

    Communion Pitcher on JJ's Tbol team

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2018
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    691
    Location:
    Asheville
    /thread. Strikeforce's 2011-2013 roster, though top heavy, rivaled UFC's roster. Coker's a badass.
     
  18. vote4pedro

    vote4pedro Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    2
    Shaw was out of his element with MMA but he did a damn good job... I think Coker would tell you that, too. Remember, a lot of the stars Coker showcased on Showtime were deals acquired when Coker bought out EliteXC's assets for $3 million. EliteXC would be a great case study for a business school class.

    to me the biggest issue was CBS not paying Elite XC for content right off the bat. Showtime provided production subsidies but no license fees. They had virtually no revenue and some a few very bad leaders who spent like drunken sailors on office space in LA and then that stupid website that cost many millions to develop. it was billed as the myspace of mma. seriously.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.