Gang Enhancement Laws (for or against?)

[Bay Area]

This topic deals with gang members so I doubt there will be a lot of sympathy from WR posters.

In California, they have Gang Enhancement time that can be applied to the back end of a sentencing.

For example, say I am a gang member, and I rob and assault someone.
The judge gives me 10 years for the crime, but then tacks on an additional 10-15 years, simply because I was in a gang.

So now I get 25 years for a robbery.

So what

 

[Deleted member 457759]

Misguided kids or no, their threat is the same. The likelihood of them ceasing to be a very dangerous public concern is marginal.

My problem is how will they determine if someone is a gang member.

 

[faustian]

They should throw RICO charges at them as well

 

[Bay Area]

Misguided kids or no, their threat is the same. The likelihood of them ceasing to be a very dangerous public concern is marginal.

True. Which is why they should be sent to prison...for the crime only.
Why slap on an additional 10-15 years on a kid? What purpose does it serve?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

You really think it would take the same amount of time for a gang member to see what a rotten POS he is and turn his life around as it would take someone else?

 

[Bay Area]

You really think it would take the same amount of time for a gang member to see what a rotten POS he is and turn his life around as it would take someone else?

No one can answer that. And what do you mean by someone else? A crime is a crime right? If a regular person shoots someone, and a gang member shoots someone, they both shot someone. How do we know who will rehabilitate faster? Further, should a receive less time than a gang member? I don't see them slapping on enhancements.

And I don't know how old you are, but Im 36, and I was not the same person I was when I was 16.

 

[spamking]

I have a hard time being sympathetic to gang members. Does anyone have an stats on how often members are successful with getting out and living a productive life?

How common is it for a member to wake up and see the need to move on and get away from the gang life?

 

[kpt018]

More laws and punishments that are focused on poor inner city minority kids? I wish I was surprised by this.

Why is it that no one is proposing that we give more jail time to guys that steal millions from investors?

Our idea of justice needs work. A kid steals a $10k car and he's getting 20 years or whatever. Guy steals $50 million from retirement funds and he gets 10 years in a white collar prison. Makes sense.

 

[jackietreehorn8]

I think you misrepresented what "gang enhancement" charges are. Your spoiler clarified..

If a defendant is convicted of a felony perpetrated in association with, for the benefit of, or under the direction of a criminal gang, with the specific intent to advance the interests of the gang in its criminal ventures, a judge may add a gang enhancement to the sentence.

It's not just...you're in a gang, you commit a crime, you get those extra years. There needs to be a link between what you did and the gang you're in.


I don't think I have a problem with this. I do think there are already too many people in prison, but these guys are part of criminal organizations - I believe "organized" crime is worse than a one-off robbery or something. These are the type of people that need to be locked up simply because they can't be trusted to be free. I'm not into the "revenge" prison sentences that are simply meant to punish someone. I am into prison sentences that keep dangerous people from doing more dangerous shit out in society.

I do think kids under 17 should be given some leniency consideration though...they're not so deep into the gang that they're hopeless. But if you're 27 and have a history of gang related crimes and get caught again, this tells me you're not planning on ever getting out or doing anything other than be a POS with your life....so that guy can go to jail for a long ass time.

 

[Bay Area]

More laws and punishments that are focused on poor inner city minority kids? I wish I was surprised by this.

Why is it that no one is proposing that we give more jail time to guys that steal millions from investors?

Our idea of justice needs work. A kid steals a $10k car and he's getting 20 years or whatever. Guy steals $50 million from retirement funds and he gets 10 years in a white collar prison. Makes sense.

 

[Bay Area]

I think you misrepresented what "gang enhancement" charges are. Your spoiler clarified..



It's not just...you're in a gang, you commit a crime, you get those extra years. There needs to be a link between what you did and the gang you're in.

ehhhhh...I guess so. But gang members tend to cause gang related crimes. I guess if a gang-member punches his mom or something, he won't get the enhancement.

But one doesn't need to be an official member, to get the enhancement. If I am hanging out with my quote/ un-quote home boys, and they are gang members, and I am not, and we all go out one night, get drunk, and they assault someone, I am guilty by association and will get the enhancement.

 

[ben236]

ehhhhh...I guess so. But gang members tend to cause gang related crimes. I guess if a gang-member punches his mom or something, he won't get the enhancement.

But one doesn't need to be an official member, to get the enhancement. If I am hanging out with my quote/ un-quote home boys, and they are gang members, and I am not, and we all go out one night, get drunk, and they assault someone, I am guilty by association and will get the enhancement.

If you didn't participate in the assault, why would you get charged with anything?

If you did participate in the assault, then yes, you might get the gang enhancement charge depending on the circumstances of the assault.

And the guy you replied to seems to be right. And your OP is highly misleading.

 

[spamking]

How about a gang member getting charged with a hate crime AND receiving the enhanced punishment?

Talk about a double whammy . . . .

 

[Bay Area]

If you didn't participate in the assault, why would you get charged with anything?

If you did participate in the assault, then yes, you might get the gang enhancement charge depending on the circumstances of the assault.

And the guy you replied to seems to be right. And your OP is highly misleading.

ok, here are some more examples:

Examples http://www.shouselaw.com/street-gang.html


•Charles is a member of a street gang that engages in drug trafficking. He is arrested and charged with possession of a controlled substance for sale. And he is also charged with Penal Code 186.22(a) PC . . . the California crime of participation in a gang . . . which increases his total potential sentence.

• Nicole is not a gang member, but her boyfriend Raul is. One day she helps Raul threaten someone who owes money to the gang...thus committing the California crime of extortion. Because she acted for the benefit of a gang...even though she is not a gang member...Nicole may face an additional sentence of up to ten (10) years on top of her sentence for committing extortion.4

See example number 2. Do you see how this is a grey area? Nicole "helps" threaten. What does "helps" mean? She is guilty by association.

And again below:

According to penal code 186.22(b) PC, anyone who commits a felony for the benefit of a gang will receive a mandatory prison sentence. The prison sentence will be in addition and consecutive to any penalty received for the felony charge. Depending on the felony charge this could mean up to twenty-five years to life in prison, even if you aren’t a gang member, and even if you weren’t the most responsible person involved in committing the felony. As you can see, gang sentencing enhancements have severe penalties designed to target those active in gangs or associating with gang members.

So again, its vague and all encompassing

 

[ben236]

ok, here are some more examples:

See example number 2. Do you see how this is a grey area? Nicole "helps" threaten. What does "helps" mean? She is guilty by association.

"Helps threaten" can mean a lot of things and I'm not going to speculate as to what it means in this context without being given more specifics. It's up to a jury of your peers to determine whether or not you "helped threaten" during the crime. And just because you were there, doesn't mean you helped threaten.

Anyways, going back to your bar example. You shouldn't be charged at all if you didn't participate in the assault. Even if you did participate, you (nor anyone else) might not be given a gang enhancement charge.

This part is key:

with the specific intent to advance the interests of the gang in its criminal ventures,

So if you and your group assaulted the guy because he gave one of you guys the stink eye, or was checking out your girl. Then there shouldn't be a gang enhancement charge because the assault was not committed with the specific intent of advancing the interests of the gang in it's criminal ventures. If you assaulted him because he was a member of a rival gang, then you WOULD get the gang enhancement charge.

I haven't yet concluded whether this law is a good thing or not but what I have concluded is that your OP is misleading.

 

[Bay Area]

So if you and your group assaulted the guy because he gave one of you guys the stink eye, or was checking out your girl. Then there shouldn't be a gang enhancement charge because the assault was not committed with the specific intent of advancing the interests of the gang in it's criminal ventures. If you assaulted him because he was a member of a rival gang, then you WOULD get the gang enhancement charge.

I haven't yet concluded whether this law is a good thing or not but what I have concluded is that your OP is misleading.

Yeah but every gang crime is in the "interests" of the gang. This isn't the mafia. Gangbangers fuck up shit for no other reason than to do it. Gangster activity is enough to get the enhancement

Another example:

Jake is a member of a street gang. Jake and other members of his gang set fire to 5 different cars in a residential building parking lot. Jake is arrested and charged with arson. And he is also charged with Penal Code 186.22(a) for participation in a gang which increases his total sentence.

Now does random arson advance the interests of the gang? Financially no. But they are just fucking shit up just to do it. Gang activity includes assaults, arson, rape and other random shit. Now even if Jake isn't an official member, he gets the gang enhancement. Why you may ask? Because:

To prove that someone is guilty of the offense of gang enhancements, the prosecutor has to prove the following facts or elements5:


◾The defendant actively participated in a criminal street gang
◾When the defendant participated in the gang, he/she knew that members of the gang engage in or have engaged in a pattern of criminal gang activity8
◾The following is a list of some of the qualifying crimes the commission of which may be considered as pattern criminal gang activity: robbery, arson, grand theft, burglary, rape, kidnapping.

AND
◾the defendant willfully assisted, furthered, or promoted felonious criminal conduct by members of the gang either by:
◾directly and actively committing a felony offense10

OR
◾aiding and abetting a felony offense11

http://www.lacriminaldefensepartner...california-penal-code-186-22-pc/#.U3pHIF_D_Z4

 

[AgentOrange24]

If the interests of the gang is to fuck shit up, then they can spend extra time in jail fucking shit up there, away from civilized society.

 

[Bay Area]

If the interests of the gang is to fuck shit up, then they can spend extra time in jail fucking shit up there, away from civilized society.

Lol.

You never fucked shit up as a kid? How would you feel about getting 30 odd years as a 16 year old?

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

I hate to sound like an authoritarian here, but I absolutely support these laws.

Gangs do engage in unlawful activities and do nothing to contribute to society, their communities, etc.

And I hate this "poor misguided kid" symphathy line, as if that is a mitigating factor. Growing up without a father or in an indigent home doesn't excuse you from aggravated assault, attempted murder, or running Trains on women.

These laws are completely just. If you want to stay out of prison or avoid these extra years tacked onto crimes, don't break the laws on the books and don't affiliate yourself with Gangs.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Simple solution: Don't join a gang and don't commit crimes.

Also, I don't buy the excuse that 16 year old kids don't know any better. The majority of 5 year old children know the difference between right and wrong. I remember as teenagers we used to joke that we should commit a crime before we turn 18 so we can get away with it.

If you haven't figured out that is wrong to vandalize building, steal from others and physically harm people by 16 you probably should be in prison for 25 years.