Television Game of Thrones S08E06 Discussion Thread: Burn them all! (the writing staff) | Our Watch has ended

Didnt seasons 5-6 have hardhome?

Yeah they sucked but they still had epic moments so people didnt complain also people were hoping that it will get better in future
 
Yeah, but "your work is complete shit and you need to die" isn't really a criticism, even if it's prevalent. Remember, we're literally posting in a thread that's titled Burn the Writers. Even if there is valid criticism to be gleaned from internet forums, it's almost impossible to wade through the dumpster fire to find it. Over time a disappointing final season has ballooned into a show that has apparently been completed shit since season 5, and D&D are completely inept writers who have have only produced anything worth a damn out of sheer luck. To be fair, these opinions are pretty much worthless, made by people that are completely ignorant of just how difficult writing a script actually is.

That is not accurate. People almost unanimously thought the show was brilliant when relying on GRRM's source material. D&D deserve a ton of credit for adapting the material to the small screen. In fact, as an adaptation it is easily one of the best ever. It is brilliant.

Almost all of the criticism began after that. Running out of source material triggered the internal logic of the series to get thrown out the window as the writers scrambled to match the "subversion of expectations" GRRM so deftly managed. Whereas GRRM was relying on the historical bloodshed of the Wars of the Roses for inspiration, D&D seemed to be relying on tropes seen in silly Young Adult film and novels, like Twilight among others, and cartoons. This was a sharp departure from the "Historical Fiction" with a touch of magic that shaped the novels and the early part of the series.

Generalizing about all internet forums is just lazy. Yes, some people are over the top, some even trolls. Yet, there are plenty of intelligent, revealing criticism of the show. If there wasn't, you wouldn't still be posting in this thread.

Most of the criticism is valid. This is NOT kindergarten. Everyone DOES NOT get a blue ribbon for effort.

If you are fine with the final seasons of the series, that is OK. However, you do not need to be familiar with the effort required to write a good script to criticize the effort. I like Haggis. Have it when I can. Delicious. I do not need to know the effort required to make it. Nor does it require knowledge of all the effort to prepare Haggis to dislike it or hate it or think its shite. As a consumer, you simply decide whether you like it or not. There is no qualification to give credit or criticism for a work of art.

For all of the people who invested so much time watching the show, the decline in quality in last few seasons was very disappointing. To most viewers' credit, criticism was minor despite the obvious and increasing drop in quality over the last few seasons and the long wait between season 7 and 8. That was the goodwill or credit they had built with their audience over the previous seasons. It was like a relationship gone bad. It didn't just happen. It was precipitated over the course of the last few seasons. The final season was the coup de grâce.
 
That is not accurate. People almost unanimously thought the show was brilliant when relying on GRRM's source material. D&D deserve a ton of credit for adapting the material to the small screen. In fact, as an adaptation it is easily one of the best ever. It is brilliant.

Almost all of the criticism began after that. Running out of source material triggered the internal logic of the series to get thrown out the window as the writers scrambled to match the "subversion of expectations" GRRM so deftly managed. Whereas GRRM was relying on the historical bloodshed of the Wars of the Roses for inspiration, D&D seemed to be relying on tropes seen in silly Young Adult film and novels, like Twilight among others, and cartoons. This was a sharp departure from the "Historical Fiction" with a touch of magic that shaped the novels and the early part of the series.

Generalizing about all internet forums is just lazy. Yes, some people are over the top, some even trolls. Yet, there are plenty of intelligent, revealing criticism of the show. If there wasn't, you wouldn't still be posting in this thread.

Most of the criticism is valid. This is NOT kindergarten. Everyone DOES NOT get a blue ribbon for effort.

If you are fine with the final seasons of the series, that is OK. However, you do not need to be familiar with the effort required to write a good script to criticize the effort. I like Haggis. Have it when I can. Delicious. I do not need to know the effort required to make it. Nor does it require knowledge of all the effort to prepare Haggis to dislike it or hate it or think its shite. As a consumer, you simply decide whether you like it or not. There is no qualification to give credit or criticism for a work of art.

For all of the people who invested so much time watching the show, the decline in quality in last few seasons was very disappointing. To most viewers' credit, criticism was minor despite the obvious and increasing drop in quality over the last few seasons and the long wait between season 7 and 8. That was the goodwill or credit they had built with their audience over the previous seasons. It was like a relationship gone bad. It didn't just happen. It was precipitated over the course of the last few seasons. The final season was the coup de grâce.

I agree with all this but, I have to say, in the first 4 seasons D&D were not only good at adapting the source material, they also added scenes and dialogues that were not in the books but they were brilliant ("chaos is a ladder" for instance). After season 4...I don't know wtf happened, but it's not only a matter of running out of source material imo.
 
That is not accurate. People almost unanimously thought the show was brilliant when relying on GRRM's source material. D&D deserve a ton of credit for adapting the material to the small screen. In fact, as an adaptation it is easily one of the best ever. It is brilliant.

Almost all of the criticism began after that. Running out of source material triggered the internal logic of the series to get thrown out the window as the writers scrambled to match the "subversion of expectations" GRRM so deftly managed. Whereas GRRM was relying on the historical bloodshed of the Wars of the Roses for inspiration, D&D seemed to be relying on tropes seen in silly Young Adult film and novels, like Twilight among others, and cartoons. This was a sharp departure from the "Historical Fiction" with a touch of magic that shaped the novels and the early part of the series.

Generalizing about all internet forums is just lazy. Yes, some people are over the top, some even trolls. Yet, there are plenty of intelligent, revealing criticism of the show. If there wasn't, you wouldn't still be posting in this thread.

Most of the criticism is valid. This is NOT kindergarten. Everyone DOES NOT get a blue ribbon for effort.

If you are fine with the final seasons of the series, that is OK. However, you do not need to be familiar with the effort required to write a good script to criticize the effort. I like Haggis. Have it when I can. Delicious. I do not need to know the effort required to make it. Nor does it require knowledge of all the effort to prepare Haggis to dislike it or hate it or think its shite. As a consumer, you simply decide whether you like it or not. There is no qualification to give credit or criticism for a work of art.

For all of the people who invested so much time watching the show, the decline in quality in last few seasons was very disappointing. To most viewers' credit, criticism was minor despite the obvious and increasing drop in quality over the last few seasons and the long wait between season 7 and 8. That was the goodwill or credit they had built with their audience over the previous seasons. It was like a relationship gone bad. It didn't just happen. It was precipitated over the course of the last few seasons. The final season was the coup de grâce.


The thing is, I disagree with most of what you say. But at the same time I've been over all these points multiple times in this long thread already. I don't really feel a need to Wade through all this again. Especially for a thread that is now only a repetitive slog that's only bumped by people making complaints.
 
You might say "many". I'd say "some".
Many in r/freefolk was saying the show was going down during season 5. Many started grumbling in season 4 when it became clear Young Griff was being omitted entirely from the show.
 
Many in r/freefolk was saying the show was going down during season 5. Many started grumbling in season 4 when it became clear Young Griff was being omitted entirely from the show.

Ok?
 
The thing is, I disagree with most of what you say. But at the same time I've been over all these points multiple times in this long thread already. I don't really feel a need to Wade through all this again. Especially for a thread that is now only a repetitive slog that's only bumped by people making complaints.

So, you liked it. Great. You somehow find empathy with the writers and you think that makes you smarter or provides you more insight. Let me repeat what people were saying 9 months ago, 6 months ago, 3 months ago and again today; you are wrong. You have provided absolutely nothing to make anyway reconsider anything. Others have. If you are tired of people refuting your bullshit, find another hobby. Fixate on another thread. Get a life.
 
So, you liked it. Great. You somehow find empathy with the writers and you think that makes you smarter or provides you more insight. Let me repeat what people were saying 9 months ago, 6 months ago, 3 months ago and again today; you are wrong. You have provided absolutely nothing to make anyway reconsider anything. Others have. If you are tired of people refuting your bullshit, find another hobby. Fixate on another thread. Get a life.

I had problems with it. Overall I consider the final season dissapointing, but not without merit. Even if I did "like it" it's impossible for that subjective opinion to be "wrong".

I can't even imagine getting as salty as you are over a TV show or a forum thread.
 
The thing is, I disagree with most of what you say. But at the same time I've been over all these points multiple times in this long thread already. I don't really feel a need to Wade through all this again. Especially for a thread that is now only a repetitive slog that's only bumped by people making complaints.

Then don't. Surely dedicating several years to defending the show against criticism is enough.
 
I agree with all this but, I have to say, in the first 4 seasons D&D were not only good at adapting the source material, they also added scenes and dialogues that were not in the books but they were brilliant ("chaos is a ladder" for instance). After season 4...I don't know wtf happened, but it's not only a matter of running out of source material imo.
They still had flashes ofthat brilliance. Hardome, BOTB, Sept blowing up. Problem was they didn't know how to carry the full load.
 
They still had flashes ofthat brilliance. Hardome, BOTB, Sept blowing up. Problem was they didn't know how to carry the full load.

A lot of people rag on 5. I think it's because it's the point where things most notably started to divert from the books. A lot of people thought the Sansa/Ramsay stuff was flawed, gratuitous, unnecessary. Many hated what happened with Stannis and Shireen.

For me, it was a very solid season. I think since I've never read any of these books, I was not disappointed with certain choices.

Among the things I liked:

- Everything with the North storyline. The season started off very strong with the dynamic between Jon and Stannis at Castle Black. I thought that the show did a very good job of establishing that, despite the fact that Stannis and Jon were both strong leaders and had mutual respect, they stood in stark contrast in key ways. I think that early scene where Melisandre tries to seduce Snow but he passes is critical in that way. While we saw Stannis succumb to that lust both out of desire and an obsession with fulfilling the prophecy she foretold, Jon is not swayed by Melisandre's promises. While Stannis is a hardliner with the Wildlings, offering them the prospect of either bending the knee or dying, Jon is willing to show compassion and to compromise and align himself with Tormund without asserting himself as a king over them.

I think that scene where Jon recruits Tormund is one of the best scenes in the season, honestly. Really solid acting from both Kit and Hivju and it really sets the tone for the second half of the season- with Jon alienating many of his fellow Night's Watchmen even though his actions are for the greater good.

- The Man Ser Friendstone- if you were a Jorah fan, season 5 had a lot to get on board with. He didn't appear till the end of the third episode, but, from there, he had a lot going on as he tried to work his way back to Dany. I particularly enjoyed when he curbstomped the competition at that regional circuit championship when he sees that Dany is there observing. Also, great stuff in the Fighting Pits of Mereen sequence. Certainly one of the more memorable sequences of the season.

- The Sons of the Harpy plotline in general. I really liked that because it showed that Dany's decision to rule Mereen from season 4 was going to have unforeseen difficulties. The SOH had a definite air of malice and anarchy that worked well within the frame of the season. Fighting Pits scene was properly unnerving and intense.

- Many will probably disagree, but I thought Arya's stuff in Bravvos was good in season 5. It was intriguing and mysterious in a way that season 6 could not maintain. My only complaint would be that we did not see as much of the training or ever really get much insight into what the order was all about. Still, I really liked the emphasis on deception and thought that Maisie's scene where she uses her storytelling/lie skills to convince the deathly ill child to mercy kill herself was one of her best-acted scenes of the season.

Sansa/Ramsay/Reek stuff was offputting but extremely well-acted. Alfie's reaction during that infamous scene just underscored how good he was throughout the show. Deserved way more praise for all he did throughout the series. I thought the interaction between McElhatton and Iwan was also very good. Roose and Ramsay were detestable heels and sans Joffrey, the show needed them.

- Hardhome- one of the best episodes of the series. Terrific at the time and holds up very well.

Season 6 I'd say is actually better overall too which makes me have no problem in saying that it was very good. I think that it definitely has problems but the highs that it hits are quite high. Particularly, episode 4, episode 9, episode 10- just very well done.

People point to the downslide after the phenomenal seasons 1-4 but I think 5 and 6 still maintained a high quality. It was 7 where the dropoff was readily apparent and season 8 just was a poor ending to a series that deserved better.
 
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I still think that jenny of oldstones alone makes season 8 worth the watch.

If that scene doesnt getcha youve never loved lost or been truly afraid in your life.
 
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