Fury vs Wilder III in Relation to the UFC/MMA Discussion Mega Thread

[GUY]

What I saw from Tyson Fury tonight leads me to believe he would do very well in MMA and could potentially be a UFC champ. He 's the only boxer I can say that about.

Obviously he has the boxing skills and would be the best boxer in UFC history, but more importantly he has the grit and physicality of an mma fighter, which is something you rarely see from a boxer. What he did to Wilder tonight wasn't just boxing it was also grappling, dirty boxing, and mauling. The only thing Fury needs is some defensive wrestling. Honestly, he doesn't even need bjj. Guys like black beast and mark hunt had amazing careers with white belt level bjj. if fury learned how to defend doubles and singles he would never lose. His skill and talent are far above anything I see in the UFC heavyweight division at the moment

if you asked me to put money on a guy with zero mma fights to become UFC champion with 3/4 years of training he would be my first choice. But it would be far from granted. He is amazing at boxing, now it depends how good he is at picking up the rest of the skills

 

[GUY]

I mean at some point Semmy Schillt, probably the best Kickboxer of all time, a monster in a sport with more transferable skills to MMA than boxing, tried and was not sucessful.

 

[HankScorpio]

You would be categorically incorrect.

It includes every single penny attributed to line items under fighter pay - every PPV bonus, every discretionary bonus, the cost of the insurance plan and more recently the performance institute. This is public record and not up for debate, its a fact and widely published. Please look this up yourself, don't take my word for it.




We also know from financial filings that the UFC is having, literally, record profits.

This is after earn outs in the tens of millions and a 50mm/year management fee going to Endeavor.

There is plenty of money, the UFC is just keeping all of it. UFC fighters are getting pennies on the dollar.

I tried looking it up, I found the 18% articles but I can't find all the perks were rolled up into that number. When you get time help me out and give me a source.

 

[PalmStrike]

Recency bias is strong with fight fans.

I enjoyed Wilder vs Fury no doubt, but over 3 fights, Fury's taken all but 3 rounds?

I was watchin Foreman vs Lyle the other day.

Holy fuqqin fuqq...that was a straight up street fight, makes Fury vs Wilder look like slap boxing.

 

[YourBoss]

I mean at some point Semmy Schillt, probably the best Kickboxer of all time, a monster in a sport with more transferable skills to MMA than boxing, tried and was not sucessful.

BJ Penn with all his mighty MMA skills. Deadly Elbows, Savage legkicking, crazy wrestling and unbeatable BJJ got koed cold by a drunk fatman.
Meanwhile a guy with some basic boxing skills

 

[rjmbrd]

I tried looking it up, I found the 18% articles but I can't find all the perks were rolled up into that number. When you get time help me out and give me a source.

Lawsuit documents reveal even more details on UFC business structure & fighter pay

One of the more anticipated revelations from the hearings was the share of revenue going to fighters. This we learned was around 20%. What was discovered in later filings was that this 20% included more than just the fight purses. According to a ‘Company Overview’ that was prepared by Zuffa in 2016 and filed as an exhibit in the lawsuit, that percentage not only covered “Athlete Compensation” but also “Other Athlete Costs.”

Athlete Compensation includes the following forms of fighter payment:

• Bout Show Compensation. An athlete’s compensation for participating in a bout, as set forth in his or her agreement(s) with Zuffa.
• Bout Win Compensation. An athlete’s compensation for winning a bout, as set forth in his or her agreement(s) with Zuffa.
• Pay-Per-View (“PPV”) Payments. Payments made to certain athletes, pursuant to their agreements, based on the number of Pay-Per-View purchases made of events in which they participate.
• Letter of Agreement (“LOA”) Payment. Payments made to athletes pursuant to a side letter to their agreements.
• Performance of the Night Bonus. Discretionary bonus for the two best individual performances of the night—generally given to two athletes per event. These bonuses replaced the Knockout of the Night and Submission of the Night bonuses after February 1, 2014.
• Fight of the Night Bonus. Discretionary bonus for the best fight of the night—generally given to both of the athletes who compete in the best fight of the night for each event.
• Other Discretionary Bonus. Individual bonuses paid to athletes, following a bout, at the discretion of Zuffa management.

Other Athlete Compensation includes the following fighter costs:

• Athlete sponsorship
• Athlete outfitting policy (“AOP”) payments. These are payment for wearing Reebok gear during an event and the week leading up to it.
• Medical and drug testing. This includes the USADA drug testing program.
• Insurance. This covers the accidental insurance policy.
• Athlete merchandise royalties

 

[Kryptt]

 

[HankScorpio]

Lawsuit documents reveal even more details on UFC business structure & fighter pay

One of the more anticipated revelations from the hearings was the share of revenue going to fighters. This we learned was around 20%. What was discovered in later filings was that this 20% included more than just the fight purses. According to a ‘Company Overview’ that was prepared by Zuffa in 2016 and filed as an exhibit in the lawsuit, that percentage not only covered “Athlete Compensation” but also “Other Athlete Costs.”

Athlete Compensation includes the following forms of fighter payment:

• Bout Show Compensation. An athlete’s compensation for participating in a bout, as set forth in his or her agreement(s) with Zuffa.
• Bout Win Compensation. An athlete’s compensation for winning a bout, as set forth in his or her agreement(s) with Zuffa.
• Pay-Per-View (“PPV”) Payments. Payments made to certain athletes, pursuant to their agreements, based on the number of Pay-Per-View purchases made of events in which they participate.
• Letter of Agreement (“LOA”) Payment. Payments made to athletes pursuant to a side letter to their agreements.
• Performance of the Night Bonus. Discretionary bonus for the two best individual performances of the night—generally given to two athletes per event. These bonuses replaced the Knockout of the Night and Submission of the Night bonuses after February 1, 2014.
• Fight of the Night Bonus. Discretionary bonus for the best fight of the night—generally given to both of the athletes who compete in the best fight of the night for each event.
• Other Discretionary Bonus. Individual bonuses paid to athletes, following a bout, at the discretion of Zuffa management.

Other Athlete Compensation includes the following fighter costs:

• Athlete sponsorship
• Athlete outfitting policy (“AOP”) payments. These are payment for wearing Reebok gear during an event and the week leading up to it.
• Medical and drug testing. This includes the USADA drug testing program.
• Insurance. This covers the accidental insurance policy.
• Athlete merchandise royalties

Thanks for taking the time to find the article. My gut STILL is telling me there is no way the 18% can contain USADA testing AND insurance but it's right there.

Are they using some sort of fuzzy accounting to get the percent of revenue?

Thanks!

 

[rjmbrd]

Thanks for taking the time to find the article. My gut STILL is telling me there is no way the 18% can contain USADA testing AND insurance but it's right there.

Are they using some sort of fuzzy accounting to get the percent of revenue?

Thanks!

It also includes the Performance Institute.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'fuzzy accounting,' when the Fertitta's circulated marketing materials to potential buyers, they specifically highlighted how low fighter pay was. The marketing packages were leaked to media so we don't need to guess. The fact that the UFC was paying fighters such an atrociously bad split of revenue was one of their key selling points.

Just in case you aren't fully understanding what I'm saying here - Lorenzo Fertitta and his banking partners bragged about how poorly fighters were being paid, knowing it would be attractive to buyers like Endeavor.

It's not only from court discovery we know how bad fighters are getting ripped off - the UFC advertised it.

 

[HankScorpio]

Really? The UFC advertised it! You got the link to that. I'm still having a hard time believing the UFC can wrap fighter pay, PI, insurance & USADA all into 18%. Don't get me wrong you proved it and I see it but damn that crazy if true.

What I mean by fuzzy accounting is like Trump counting his brand name as a part of his net worth, when he was trying to buy an NFL team. Was the UFC counting something to inflate revenue that wasn't actual?

 

[iwannabeadored]

He would have a hard time getting past his reach. It isn't like he is some great wrestler either.

no he wouldn’t. I started out boxing and then transitioned to mma. Even strikers especially at elite level train everything. Francis isn’t dumb, he would clinch. Look at the amount of clinching in the fury fight happened. Even in the Conor fight with Floyd. Every time a clinch would happen in mma that boxer is on the floor. Now if Tyson trains mma for 2-3 years, working all aspects he would do much better. Just going in as a boxer no chance. Just because Francis doesn’t use his takedowns doesn’t mean he can’t. He hit a beautiful switch on stipe and got top position. He knows mma.

It’s just a fallacy to think barring a low percentage one punch ko that fury doesn’t get smashed.

 

[iwannabeadored]

BJ Penn with all his mighty MMA skills. Deadly Elbows, Savage legkicking, crazy wrestling and unbeatable BJJ got koed cold by a drunk fatman.
Meanwhile a guy with some basic boxing skills

Lol bj was also shit faced and most likely drugged up.

The man is 40 years old.

 

[TheComputerGuy]

no he wouldn’t. I started out boxing and then transitioned to mma. Even strikers especially at elite level train everything. Francis isn’t dumb, he would clinch. Look at the amount of clinching in the fury fight happened. Even in the Conor fight with Floyd. Every time a clinch would happen in mma that boxer is on the floor. Now if Tyson trains mma for 2-3 years, working all aspects he would do much better. Just going in as a boxer no chance. Just because Francis doesn’t use his takedowns doesn’t mean he can’t. He hit a beautiful switch on stipe and got top position. He knows mma.

It’s just a fallacy to think barring a low percentage one punch ko that fury doesn’t get smashed.

No one in mma is anything closer to fury in striking so no they wouldn't easily clinch. They also wouldn’t be on the ground. If he went for the legs he would just eat an uppercut and fight is over.

 

[iwannabeadored]

No one in mma is anything closer to fury in striking so no they wouldn't easily clinch. They also wouldn’t be on the ground. If he went for the legs he would just eat an uppercut and fight is over.

Spoken like someone who has neither boxed nor done mma.

connecting on someone shooting in and koing them is difficult. There’s a reason why we don’t often see it in mma. The timing is very hard. This isn’t a video game, you don’t connect and it’s over

 

[TheComputerGuy]

Spoken like someone who has neither boxed nor done mma.

connecting on someone shooting in and koing them is difficult. There’s a reason why we don’t often see it in mma. The timing is very hard. This isn’t a video game, you don’t connect and it’s over

I’ve done plenty of training and Fury wouldn’t have any problem with a 1 hit KO on an mma fighter.