From what I saw against Hendo DC does not have the tools to beat jones

I think we already knew that Hendo is no Jon Jones. At least those of us who aren't retarded.
 
I think DC can beat Jones but in order to do so he will have to use a boring, LNP-ish type gameplan. If he doesn't close the distance effectively he will be rudely picked apart by Bones.
 
DC is definitely a threat but he's certainly not a lock for the LHW title, and I'm a solid fan of his. Both Gus and Jones could very well beat him. Even a guy like AJ could beat DC if he can hit him and hurt him before DC clinches with him and takes him down. AJ has fought at heavyweight too and beat Arlovski not so long ago (not saying much but he's a big strong dude himself). Gus has the movement, the striking (boxing especially), the speed, power and the footwork to be difficult for DC to fight too (and for Jones, once again). Trying to close that great deal of distance with guys that have such a huge reach advantage (and leg length) won't be as easy as many think it will be, especially with a guy who is constantly circling and hopping around on the balls of his feet like Gus does.

DC got a good win and impressive stoppage over Hendo the other night but his BJJ does need some improvement and his GnP needs work too. For a guy with major KO power you'd think that his GnP would be some really powerful shit. Once he takes you down he will have to find a sub or GnP to get the finish and right now he still needs to improve them both (admittedly, he said that he's only getting better with everything). He did beat up and stop a nearly 44 year old man though (in 3 months) that's also off his TRT.

Hendo hasn't been an Olympic wrestling participant in 18 years since the '96 summer Olympic games & before that at the Olympics in '92 in Greco. His first major tournament was the Pan-Ams in 1984 (he was around 18 years old) and hasn't actually competed in wrestling since 2000, at the Pan-Ams in California, which he medaled Gold in, along with the Henri Deglane Challenge that same year where he medaled Bronze.
Good post.
 
What gave you the idea he wanted to strike with Dan? He did no such thing. He tried to bully Hendo against the fence for the most part. Hendo scared Rashad off the stand up game whne he dropped him with a jab in the first round.

If anything Hendo was trying to strike with Rashad while Rashad tried to clinch the entire fight.

And do you really think Hendo would get taken down by Sean Salmon, like Rashad did?

If you really think Hendo is in the same category wrestling that Rashad is, I don't know what to tell you, man. Yes, most of their fight was in the clinch but that's the point. Rashad is a freestyle wrestler and Dan is Greco. I don't recall if Rashad tried hard to shoot for takedowns against Hendo. I didn't think he did because I think he would have gotten them if that had been his game plan.

Hendo's wrestling has been nothing special for years despite all you hear about him being a former Olympian. Machida looked like he manhandled him in the clinch a couple of times too. I always liked Dan but he long ago became a one-trick pony looking for the H bomb.

Style's make fights and I think Rashad would have offered much more resistance to Cormier than Hendo could have. I'm not saying he'd win a wrestling match against Cormier by any stretch but he's way faster than Hendo.
 
Brawlers that can wrestle and wrestlers that can brawl have so far not had enough tools to finish Jones. Cormier is great, but lacking the fully stocked box of mma tools of Jones.

Also, elite wrestlers D1, D2 and Olympic caliber seem to be too hard wired for the wrestle-brawl game plans. Coleman, Randleman, Henderson, Erikson and Lindland often found themselves losing because they could not switch game plans during the fight.

Jones does not have this problem and will change his game in a split second if he sees an opportunity.
 
Jones is the best striker at LHW and a much better striker than anyone DC has faced so I dont see DC being able to Hang with jones.
DC is for sure able to take Jones down not at will but with his technique and power it is a sure thing he has the ability to get him down. That is going to be the problem for DC, once he gets Jones down what is he going to be able to do to him?

Watching the DC/Hendo fight it was clear DC's submission wrestling is lacking. And DC does not do enough damage with his GnP to threaten Jones on the ground.

Jones with his reach and fight IQ is going to be a big problem for DC off his back. DC has a good chance to be beaten up in Jones guard and KOed or subbed.

Punch him in the face.
 
I agree TS, beating a 40 year old who weighed 199 pounds
when DC prob weighed over 230 pounds on fight night

well doesn't mean he will rag-doll Jones the same way

This is the same guy who ragdolled a 250lb Barnett though, maybe not to the extent he did Hendo but still a dominant wrestling performance.

I do think Cormier may have an issue with hurting Jones on the ground but he doesn't need to do that to win the fight.

One aspect that I think a lot of people are sleeping on is how much Jones uses his wrestling/clinch to avoid boxing exchanges. Obviously his kicks help keep opponents at a distance but not wanting to be taken down on clinch up also helps keep them away from Jones and when they do push forward Jones often switches directly into the clinch.

Imagine Cormier does have the wrestling/clinch advantage, he might not actually be able to hurt Jones on the ground much but suddenly its Jones who needs to worry about ending up in the clinch. DC doesn't need to worry about pushing forward as much and Jones doesn't have an easy "out" in clinching up when he does.

To me where Jones still looked most vulnerable is his boxing, technically its way behind the rest of his standup, he IMHO lacks a good jab(which he covers from the threat of the takedown), power and head movement whilst Cormier has shown he's really dangerous exchanging close in.
 
DC made Hendo look like he had'nt wrestled a day in his life. Say what you will about Hendo's mma wrestling and how old he is, but if you're Jon Jones you cant be happy with what you saw Saturday.
 
I just tought he failed to secure some positions and was contantly moving because of it, also going for random submission attempts.

Could've been better in my eyes.
 
The fact of the matter is Cormier did everything he wanted to. Jones is bigger ,faster, stronger, more skillful than Hendo, but he's not beating DC easily, that's for sure, even with a foot of reach advantage.
 
Based on what I saw, Cormier will have to win a decision with his wrestling. He had amazing top control but looked lost trying to ground and pound and with his submission attempts. He'll basically have to get the fight to the ground and just hold him there for 25 minutes.

That's a long, long time not to get hit by Jones. DC isn't winning that fight.
 
The real issue here is everyone wants to go with the extreme with their predictions. The truth is Cormier has proven hes going to be very dangerous one with his wrestling and two with his fight IQ. And Jones has proved hes going to be dangerous with his length and unpredictability. This is going to be a very good fight/fights.
 
DC did very little damage with his GnP he did not demolish Hendo. He controlled him and tired him out.

Hendo has some dinossaur skin and DC cut him open for the first time in a long time. Also he made him gas so hard Hendo's eyes rolled back in the second round.

I dont know if DC can beat jon or even gus, but the dude has some serious chances.
 
If you really think Hendo is in the same category wrestling that Rashad is, I don't know what to tell you, man. Yes, most of their fight was in the clinch but that's the point. Rashad is a freestyle wrestler and Dan is Greco. I don't recall if Rashad tried hard to shoot for takedowns against Hendo. I didn't think he did because I think he would have gotten them if that had been his game plan.

Hendo's wrestling has been nothing special for years despite all you hear about him being a former Olympian. Machida looked like he manhandled him in the clinch a couple of times too. I always liked Dan but he long ago became a one-trick pony looking for the H bomb.

Style's make fights and I think Rashad would have offered much more resistance to Cormier than Hendo could have. I'm not saying he'd win a wrestling match against Cormier by any stretch but he's way faster than Hendo.


I like how you talk about Rashad's wrestling, then bash Hendo's. As I've said already, the 'superior wrestler' in Rashad could barely do anything against Hendo. Clinch fighting is wrestling so stop acting like it isn't. Rashad and Hendo went equal with each other. And Rashad did shoot against Hendo and got shucked off when he did. Rashad had him on his back for less than a minute. And this was Hendo off TRT as well.

Rashad could do better. But he has shown nothing to suggest so. Cormier has proven he is a more developed striker, especially recently. Rashad hasn't had an impressive display of wrestling outside of the Chael fight in quite sometime.
 
I like how you talk about Rashad's wrestling, then bash Hendo's. As I've said already, the 'superior wrestler' in Rashad could barely do anything against Hendo. Clinch fighting is wrestling so stop acting like it isn't. Rashad and Hendo went equal with each other. And Rashad did shoot against Hendo and got shucked off when he did. Rashad had him on his back for less than a minute. And this was Hendo off TRT as well.

Rashad could do better. But he has shown nothing to suggest so. Cormier has proven he is a more developed striker, especially recently. Rashad hasn't had an impressive display of wrestling outside of the Chael fight in quite sometime.

Rashad outwrestled Phil Davis like he was a little kid in 2012. Wrestling is Davis's only weapon. Chael was his last fight. Wrestling his Chael's only weapon too.

When is the last time Hendo out-wrestled anyone? I think both Davis and Sonnen would easily outwrestle Dan. Rasha's problem is he fell in love with his striking after KO'd Liddell.
 
Rashad outwrestled Phil Davis like he was a little kid in 2012. Wresteling is Davis's only weapon. Chael was his last fight. Wrestling his Chael's only weapon too.

When is the last time Hendo out-wrestled anyone? I think both Davis and Sonnen would easily outwrestle Dan. Rasha's problem is he fell in love with his striking after KO'd Liddell.

He didn't outwrestle Davis like a child. He took him down a couple time. Not to mention Davis landed at least one takedown of his own.

The point is Rashad could do practically nothing to Hendo while Cormier did what he wanted when he wanted Rashad's weakest portion of his wrestling game has also always been his TDD.

There is literally no evidence to suggest Rashad wouldn't get steam rolled by DC. So, even if you believe Rashad is a better wrestler than Hendo, it isn't going to matter. Cormier will take him down like every other fighter he has faced. You literally are hoping that somehow, Rashad is going to neutralize Cormier's wrestling and test him on the feet. Which is both unlikely and makes little difference. Cormier is a better striker.
 
He didn't outwrestle Davis like a child. He took him down a couple time. Not to mention Davis landed at least one takedown of his own.

The point is Rashad could do practically nothing to Hendo while Cormier did what he wanted when he wanted Rashad's weakest portion of his wrestling game has also always been his TDD.

There is literally no evidence to suggest Rashad wouldn't get steam rolled by DC. So, even if you believe Rashad is a better wrestler than Hendo, it isn't going to matter. Cormier will take him down like every other fighter he has faced. You literally are hoping that somehow, Rashad is going to neutralize Cormier's wrestling and test him on the feet. Which is both unlikely and makes little difference. Cormier is a better striker.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Rashad is a way better wrestler than Dan. So are Davis and Sonnen. Cormier might dominate Rashad the same way he did Hendo but It would surprise and impress me a lot more than him beating Dan so easily. Since Dan's only weapon is his right hand.
 
Jones with his reach and fight IQ is going to be a big problem for DC off his back. DC has a good chance to be beaten up in Jones guard and KOed or subbed.

What fight have you seen jones operate from bottom in?
What examples of his super guard work do you have?
How many knockouts have you seen from guard players when someone is in their guard?

Correct answers are
None
None
And none

-You don't know what jones guard is like and neither does anyone else....it hasn't been tested
-Long reach helps with some chokes (off the top of my head d arce) BUT once your guards passed it also makes a lot of things easier(off the top of my head armbars)


Jones vs dc....I still FAVOR jbj....but your reasoning is flawed


**btw only other ppl to sub hendo were a couple of nogs and some andy silva character......not bad company sub skill wise
 
Nothing jones can throw will hurt dc. Jones is skinny and weak. Not punching power. Dc trains with cain and fights with hws. He will trash jones while eating w.e jones can dish out.

A part of me wants jones to beat gus so he can fight dc and be the heavy fav so i can win a fortune. :)
 
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