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Frank talks about several technical flaws he made against lesnar in their fight

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by BJJ_Rage, Aug 12, 2010.

  1. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    YouTube - Frank Mir (part 3): Half Guard for MMA and moving your body in unison

    Frank talks about several technical flaws he made against lesnar in their fight (and admits that it wasn't size that beat him, but that lesnar was technically better in that position).

    he then goes over some of the things he did wrong, and what people should do differently if they find themselves in that situation.

    if this has been posted, sorry.

    lets not turn this into a "brock would still win" thread, please.


    Thought this would be much better discuss in the grappling forum than in the heavies....
     
  2. An end for Purple Belt

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    I don't watch a video unless I make a bad post about it first, but is it about the half guard? I don't really expect someone to be able to sweep a 300 pound champion wrestler from it, but let's have a look, could be a goodie.
     
  3. DiscipleOfPog Green Belt

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    Stepping over with the outside leg is always better than locking the outside triangle. I'm surprised Frank doesn't already do this if he's known for his guard.
     
  4. knoxpk Black Belt

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    I don't have to see it to know that Brock used superior technique. It was a bunch of other nuthuggers cryin it was brute strength. It was a good fundamental reverse half nelson/stockade position that started the onslaught and wrist control from the top turtle that did him in.
     
  5. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    yeah it is... about closing and locking your legs on half guard....

    I dont really agree with him, while he might be on something here, letting your legs loose will mean the dude is going to pass to side control, and while he says that bjj guys do this because in bjj passing to side control scores points, well, it does scores points no just because is a nice thing to do, its because on side control, you can do a shit more lot of stuff to the guy on the bottom and also, its a shit more difficult to regain guard if the other guy is on side control...
     
  6. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    watch it, its interesting...
     
  7. DiscipleOfPog Green Belt

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    When you lock up the outside triangle, the guy can keep pressure on you, smash your knee down, and take mount.

    Stepping over with your outside leg allows your hips to be A LOT more mobile. It makes it a lot easier to get back to full guard, come up for a single leg, go for the deep underhook sweep, take the back, etc.

    There is risk in keeping your legs open, but like Frank said, the half guard is not really a position you want to stay in. It can be offensive, but ultimately, you want to get back to a full guard, open, butterfly, closed, etc. Keeping your legs locked prevents your own movement and gives the other guy time to crush you and prepare his pass.
     
  8. Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Not really, when i saw Mir vs Lesnar 2 i simply saw what i see a lot in BJJ, he was fighting to "not lose" instead of fighting to win, he also did the same thing in the first fight. The difference is that this type of game depends entirely on mistakes of the opponent, things that are good in begginer levels, but not fit for a professional fight.

    This is something i gained from Judo a MA that indeed allows stalling and non-combativity in the ground, but in the standup it heavily penalizes non-combativity and encourages you to fight to win and set up your game, even on the ground, judo does penalizes stalling to a certain point by having pins.

    The problem when Mir locked his legs is that it meant that he was not trying to escape, he was trying not to get passed. This is simply wrong, because Brock could still pound Mir from halfguard, and with no hip mobility, there was little Mir could accomplish.

    Before anyone says anything Couture was also in the same position, and he never locked, this allowed Lesnar to move into better positions but this had Lesnar 100% focused on achieving control so he didn't pummeled Couture.

    Again, its a vice from sport BJJ where side control and halfguard are world apart, but in MMA halfguard to sidecontrol its not much, specially when achieving the transition means you can't strike.

    Mir lacked heart and the determination to win, that's why he lost.
     
  9. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    having a monkey like lesnar on side control is not going to be anything nice... IMHO, it will be much more difficult to get the fuck away, also, how the hell are you going to sweep lesnar from side control? at least from half guard you have a chance (not much though)... im not saying that staying on halfguard is ok, not even saying that locking your legs is ok or not, just saying that there is a reason why passing guard is awarded points on bjj competitions, and is not just out of the glue...
     
  10. Fedorzilla Brown Belt

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    I think Mir had NO intention of using half guard to be offensive except in terms of the hail mary kneebar that he got in the first fight. He's good off his back with armbars/guillotines, etc. but he removed those options by resorting to halfguard. There's no way you're going to sweep that gorilla ... sorry, Frank. It's possible you could sneak out the back door and take the back or top position, but those were his only two options. They are both predictable as hell from that position and both options vanished when he allowed Lesnar to flatten him out and get solid head control all the way through to Mir's opposite armpit.

    It's not fucking rocket science and it's laughable that Mir is posting shit like this as if he's had an epiphany. He will never beat Lesnar again.
     
  11. Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    As opposed to what? getting pounded slowly but surely? That's like not trying to escape a sinking ship because you may drown faster.

    And yes there is a point in BJJ competitions, because there is little offensive capabilities from top halfguard compared to side control under BJJ rules, but in MMA its completely diferent.

    Also in BJJ working on transition and position means nothing because the attacker first needs to secure the position before the submission. In MMA working in transition or control means that you are not striking. That's why stalling can be done so much better in BJJ than MMA. You can have someone in guard and locked halfguard and the fight is stalled, in MMA the top guy can still strike if you have the fight stalled.

    Agreed, the best way to avoid being smothered is simply not stopping moving, if Lesnar is busy trying to pin, he can't strike, we saw that in Couture fight.

    And no matter how ugly things are doing something with little chances is better than doing something with zero chances.
     
  12. redaxe Silver Belt

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    That was Mir's problem against Carwin too. He gets put in a bad position and then he stops to rest and think about how he's going to get out of it. His opponent takes the opportunity to punch his face in.
     
  13. MickCollins O Soto Seanzito

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    Biggest technical/strategic flaw? Allowing a man with hands the size of shar-peis to hit him repeatedly in the face.
     
  14. Explosion Man Blue Belt

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    I don't think he should have went for a lock down when he on the wrong side. He was holding Lesnar down when Lesnar had no intention of passing.
     
  15. jasond Purple Belt

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    Completely disregarding the actual techniques he talked about, one of the points he made that I really appreciated was how we sometimes tend to pick up bad habits and continue using them because we were able to get away with them against people who don't know any better.

    A teammate and I were talking about this just the other night; how we'll do a move we've been using (successfully, at that) for years and our black belt with pull us off to the side afterward and show us one or two simple mistakes that we were making that make the move SO much more effective. We never realized that we were doing anything wrong because we were able to pull the move(s) off against people who didn't know how to capitalize on whatever mistakes we were making.
     

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