Frank Mir shuts down WWE haters: You know Bruce Lee didn’t do any real fights, right?

A. There's no telling what people will be studying as "high art" in 500 years. You'd be shocked at the pulp that has been recovered and is now being studied in Universities around the globe.

B. Springer, et al, is at least as likely to be a subject of study in 500 years as MMA.

C. That's hardly the point. Did you even bother to read my post?


Ok man. You feel like WWE and Jerry Springer are on the level of shakespear. You think they are likely to be studied in 500 years- maybe as a precursor to the fall of humanity. I think its base trash appealing to the lowest parts of the human experience.

We can agree to dissagree.
 
Since this has turned in to MMA vs WWE I’m just gonna say it:

Pro Wrestlers are tougher than mixed martial artists.
 
Ok man. You feel like WWE and Jerry Springer are on the level of shakespear. You think they are likely to be studied in 500 years- maybe as a precursor to the fall of humanity. I think its base trash appealing to the lowest parts of the human experience.

We can agree to dissagree.

Say what you will. The point is simply that Shakespeare was thought, in his day, to be appealing to the lowest parts of human experience... and if you take some time to actually read some Shakespeare, you'll see that he really was.

The porter in Macbeth has a monologue about how alcohol makes you horny but makes your dick limp. He's more crude about it than I just was. We won't even get into Lady Macbeth talking about how she'd bash her baby's brain out as it smiled in her face rather than break a promise, and all of the bloody, creative deaths that thrilled the crowd.

Samson and Gregory open Romeo and Juliet by catching the attention of the audience with a discussion about raping the women of the house of Montague, and the Nurse keeps everyone engaged with crude jokes on crude topics.

Lear has a torture scene take place on stage, complete with an eyeball being gouged out. In fairness, Lord Chamberlain's Men were competing for their audience with such highbrow events as bear bating.

It goes on and on. And it's not just Shakespeare. Go back as far as you like. Oedipus Rex discovers that he's unwittingly killed his father and married his mom. Now there's a WWE story-line, if ever there was one.

And so what?

Again, no one is saying you should like it or watch it (I haven't watched it for 20 years myself). No one is saying that WWE wrestling is on a level with Shakespeare, either (that's a false representation of what I've suggested).

All I'm saying is it's wrong to dismiss out of hand the audience of some particular form of art as being stupid, or crude or only being interested in the lowest parts of human experience.

As an MMA fan, you'd think you'd understand this. There are all sorts of MMA fans who watch for no other reason than the pleasure they get from seeing people hurt one another. But people watch different things for different reasons and in different ways. I wouldn't make assumptions about the sophistication (or lack thereof) of the lens through which people are viewing even something as ridiculous, on the surface, as Springer.

Or, even if you want to ignore all of that, maybe just save your righteous indignation for bullfighting or dog fighting or revenge porn or other things that actually exploit and harm innocent parties instead of things that explore the "lowest parts of human experience" through play.
 
Since this has turned in to MMA vs WWE I’m just gonna say it:

Pro Wrestlers are tougher than mixed martial artists.

i would say its pretty close, but pro wrestling is much more dangerous and people are complaining about ufc shit pay, the wwe wrestlers get paid shit aside from the superstars ie John Cena, Big Show, Triple H, Roman Reigns, Brock
 
Most WWE wrestlers actually come from sports background and some of them even wrestled at a very high level ie Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, Dolph Ziggler, etc
 
Look at these elite skillz!!
S1YFsAw.gif
 
Say what you will. The point is simply that Shakespeare was thought, in his day, to be appealing to the lowest parts of human experience... and if you take some time to actually read some Shakespeare, you'll see that he really was.

The porter in Macbeth has a monologue about how alcohol makes you horny but makes your dick limp. He's more crude about it than I just was. We won't even get into Lady Macbeth talking about how she'd bash her baby's brain out as it smiled in her face rather than break a promise, and all of the bloody, creative deaths that thrilled the crowd.

Samson and Gregory open Romeo and Juliet by catching the attention of the audience with a discussion about raping the women of the house of Montague, and the Nurse keeps everyone engaged with crude jokes on crude topics.

Lear has a torture scene take place on stage, complete with an eyeball being gouged out. In fairness, Lord Chamberlain's Men were competing for their audience with such highbrow events as bear bating.

It goes on and on. And it's not just Shakespeare. Go back as far as you like. Oedipus Rex discovers that he's unwittingly killed his father and married his mom. Now there's a WWE story-line, if ever there was one.

And so what?

Again, no one is saying you should like it or watch it (I haven't watched it for 20 years myself). No one is saying that WWE wrestling is on a level with Shakespeare, either (that's a false representation of what I've suggested).

All I'm saying is it's wrong to dismiss out of hand the audience of some particular form of art as being stupid, or crude or only being interested in the lowest parts of human experience.

As an MMA fan, you'd think you'd understand this. There are all sorts of MMA fans who watch for no other reason than the pleasure they get from seeing people hurt one another. But people watch different things for different reasons and in different ways. I wouldn't make assumptions about the sophistication (or lack thereof) of the lens through which people are viewing even something as ridiculous, on the surface, as Springer.

Or, even if you want to ignore all of that, maybe just save your righteous indignation for bullfighting or dog fighting or revenge porn or other things that actually exploit and harm innocent parties instead of things that explore the "lowest parts of human experience" through play.

My bullshit meter is going off. it is laughable that you compare the base drivel WWE with shakespeare. I have seen both and read one of them-- the one worthy of print. I kind of want to respond by saying fuck off. Your whole argument is just as stupid as hell. I am sorry but this is the most laughable attempt I have ever seen at trying to justify watching trash.

Just watch trash but don't lie about it to me man. Its not working.

Or better yet if this is really how you feel just be ok with that. We are not going to see eye to eye and I don't mind if you hold the opinion that you do.
 
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A. There's no telling what people will be studying as "high art" in 500 years. You'd be shocked at the pulp that has been recovered and is now being studied in Universities around the globe.

B. Springer, et al, is at least as likely to be a subject of study in 500 years as MMA.

C. That's hardly the point. Did you even bother to read my post?
Pro wrestling has been around in the US for over 150 years. It's as old as baseball. A pro wrestler became governor of Minnesota. Mohammed Ali has flat out said he got the idea for his antics and trash talk after going to a pro wrestling match. A pro wrestler became UFC champ. 6 fighters in the UFC hall of fame have done pro wrestling. It will definitely be studied to some degree.
 
Bruce fought all the time in what people call smokers. Just because it's not on TV, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Talk to people that actually knew him.

, smokers lmfao...not a single piece of evidence more than a words of people who probably idiolized him... it’s a freaking myth! Just like Ricksons 400-0, or many others martial artist. Back in the mids 90s there were always people taking about this and that dude who could defeat 10 guys with a. Single punch or stuff like that. Video kill all
Myths, nowadays people don’t go blindly believing all the shit people talk
 
My bullshit meter is going off. it is laughable that you compare the base drivel WWE with shakespeare. I have seen both and read one of them-- the one worthy of print. I kind of want to respond by saying fuck off. Your whole argument is just as stupid as hell. I am sorry but this is the most laughable attempt I have ever seen at trying to justify watching trash.

Just watch trash but don't lie about it to me man. Its not working.

Or better yet if this is really how you feel just be ok with that. We are not going to see eye to eye and I don't mind if you hold the opinion that you do.

A. I don't watch it.

B. ALL things are "comparable." I've not once argued that Pro Wrestling was anywhere near being on an artistic level with Shakespeare (which seems to be what you're implying).

C. I teach Shakespeare and have taught it at the University level.

D. I've also written and read papers on Pro Wrestling in University at the Grad Level.

E. Shakespeare was never "worthy of print." We're mostly reading copies of scripts left behind by the players.

F. I somehow doubt you've read much Shakespeare, seeing how much difficulty you have reading and understanding a few straightforward Sherdog posts.
 
It baffles me to this day how people can still drag the name of somebody who died almost 50 years ago through the mud.

Bruce Lee was the gateway for pretty much most people growing up in the 70s, 80s and 90s to take an interest in martial arts, not just his movies, but his philosophy also. The fact that a seemingly smart guy like Frank Mir doesn't seem to get that is quite sad.
 
A. I don't watch it.

B. ALL things are "comparable." I've not once argued that Pro Wrestling was anywhere near being on an artistic level with Shakespeare (which seems to be what you're implying).

C. I teach Shakespeare and have taught it at the University level.

D. I've also written and read papers on Pro Wrestling in University at the Grad Level.

E. Shakespeare was never "worthy of print." We're mostly reading copies of scripts left behind by the players.

F. I somehow doubt you've read much Shakespeare, seeing how much difficulty you have reading and understanding a few straightforward Sherdog posts.


Ok. WWE is on the level of Shakespear in your mind. I dissagree. This seems to be the end of our converse.
 
Ok. WWE is on the level of Shakespear in your mind. I dissagree. This seems to be the end of our converse.

It seems that's best, seeing that your reading comprehension skills are clearly on a par with a third grader.
 
A. I don't watch it.

B. ALL things are "comparable." I've not once argued that Pro Wrestling was anywhere near being on an artistic level with Shakespeare (which seems to be what you're implying).

C. I teach Shakespeare and have taught it at the University level.

D. I've also written and read papers on Pro Wrestling in University at the Grad Level.

E. Shakespeare was never "worthy of print." We're mostly reading copies of scripts left behind by the players.

F. I somehow doubt you've read much Shakespeare, seeing how much difficulty you have reading and understanding a few straightforward Sherdog posts.

A friend of mine did a college paper about WWE being similar to Shakespeare
That was about 2002

Wild to see someone else bring it up
 
Very mature. You clealy teach at the college level. No wonder you defend WWE.

Once you've said something six different times in six different ways and the person you're corresponding with continues to come back with the exact same response, over and over, arguing against a point that you've never made (that pro wrestling is on a level with Shakespeare), you begin to feel like maybe you're being trolled. And so you respond accordingly. Surprise, surprise.
 
I've always felt pro wrestling was more in line with action movie stunts and stuntmen than anything else. Both have highly trained professionals executing predetermined sequences for entertainment value. That's all it is, basically. A cinematic fight scene with a live audience.
 
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