Frank Mir >>> Nogueira

Total Immortal said:
And Mir beat Nog, TWICE. Also Mir tooled Nelson who just knocked Nog out brutally.


Like I said Nog's overall MMA legacy surpasses Mir's, but Mir is the better fighter between the two. He proved it by being the first guy to KO Nog and the first to submit him.
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Rofl.

You can bring up the Nelson bout. I can bring up the Barnett bout. What speaks to Nog's brilliance as a fighter is he didn't start getting finished until the end of his career, and only to top fighters. Mir got finished throughout his.

So yeah Mir has those two victories. And maybe he is a bad match up for Nog. But Nog is the better fighter. It's pretty obvious. There's a reason his legacy is better. He was a better fighter against better fighters than Mir throughout his career.

And the second fight between Mir and Nog left plenty of questions. It was pretty embarrassing for Mir to get tooled on the feet the way he did, especially after the nature of their first bout.

At best, Mir is a bad matchup for Nog. But if you want to compare them skill for skill, Nog is the better fighter. I highly doubt Mir would have beat the same fighters Nog did in his prime.
 
It is possible to lose to someone and still have an overall better career and be a better fighter than them. As someone pointed out already, Hughes is 10x the fighter Hallmann is, but Hallmann beat him twice.
 
ShreddinMMA said:
Not sure how you can say this. Nog beat opponents Mir lost to. Nog and Mir both share victories over some of the same fighters. And Nog never lost to fighters as low ranked as Nog.

So, it's hard to say Mir is a better fighter. There's a reason Nog beat much better fighters throughout his career.
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Why try to use MMA Math instead of the 2 fights these guys had?
 
Nog has 13 top 10 wins.

Mir has 4.

... and I'm pretty sure Mir's only top 5 win is Sylvia (I could be wrong).

It's not like Mir hasn't had the chance to pick up more... it's just that most times he's in with a top 10 guy he loses.

Only fight fans believe that if you compete once or twice against someone and win it proves you are therefore better. Fans of every other sport understand that shit happens and 1 or 2 is a pretty damned small sample size and you might want to look at other indicators to round out the story.

Had Mir beat Nog up twice the way Cain beat JDS up twice, for instance... or even the way Weidman beat Anderson twice... then I'd be the first to agree with TS.

But Mir was in trouble in both of those fights and had things gone a little differently it could have easily gone 2-0 for Nog (Hendo v Shogun is a similar situation).

That said, Mir won against Nog the same way Nog has won against a whole bunch of guys, so I'm okay with someone having the opinion that Mir is the better fighter... I just disagree, for all the reasons above.

Also, I watch fights the same way I used to watch baseball when it was my favourite sport. That is to say, I don't watch to see who's better... I watch to see who wins.
 
ShreddinMMA said:
Rofl.

You can bring up the Nelson bout. I can bring up the Barnett bout. What speaks to Nog's brilliance as a fighter is he didn't start getting finished until the end of his career, and only to top fighters. Mir got finished throughout his.

So yeah Mir has those two victories. And maybe he is a bad match up for Nog. But Nog is the better fighter. It's pretty obvious. There's a reason his legacy is better. He was a better fighter against better fighters than Mir throughout his career.

And the second fight between Mir and Nog left plenty of questions. It was pretty embarrassing for Mir to get tooled on the feet the way he did, especially after the nature of their first bout.

At best, Mir is a bad matchup for Nog. But if you want to compare them skill for skill, Nog is the better fighter. I highly doubt Mir would have beat the same fighters Nog did in his prime.
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Guys like you are why TS needed to make this thread.

And you're dead wrong... I have 2 fights that prove it without a doubt.
 
Imo Petey is just creating a trap to ban hammer as many posters as possible to fulfill his quota. Plz dun b& me
 
bryank said:
Why try to use MMA Math instead of the 2 fights these guys had?
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Because Nog was way past his prime. History will remember Nog as one of the greatest ever. Mir, not even close.
 
Mario Cruz destroyed Mir in very 1st round. It was his 2nd pro MMA fight too LOL
 
Deal with it he says..... In the thread he started..... Much retardation in your family?
 
bryank said:
Why try to use MMA Math instead of the 2 fights these guys had?
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If you want me to admit Mir was better than Nog at that point in their careers, sure. You can have that.

But to say Mir is the overall better fighter is ridiculous. If Mir was truly the better fighter overall, his resume would be a lot more impressive against the top fighters he did face. And he wouldn't have embarrassing losses to people like Vera and Cruz.

I get the feeling you'll probably dismiss talk of fighters in their prime. But I'd pick Nog in his prime over Mir in his prime pretty consistently. Mir should get respect for what he did to Nog. But I think it's laughable that you can say Mir is a better fighter when besides Nog, his best wins are Tim Sylvia and Roy Nelson. I guess you could include a green Lesnar on that list too.
 
bryank said:
Guys like you are why TS needed to make this thread.

And you're dead wrong... I have 2 fights that prove it without a doubt.
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And I have a list of top 10 fighters I doubt Mir could have even lasted with until the end of the bell. Mir gets credit for finishing a legend in the twilight of his career. When that's your biggest accomplishment, that's fairly embarrassing.

I guess we should say that at his best, Mike Tyson wasn't as good of a fighter as Buster Douglas. Because your logic basically is in line with that.
 
ShreddinMMA said:
If you want me to admit Mir was better than Nog at that point in their careers, sure. You can have that.

But to say Mir is the overall better fighter is ridiculous. If Mir was truly the better fighter overall, his resume would be a lot more impressive against the top fighters he did face. And he wouldn't have embarrassing losses to people like Vera and Cruz.

I get the feeling you'll probably dismiss talk of fighters in their prime. But I'd pick Nog in his prime over Mir in his prime pretty consistently. Mir should get respect for what he did to Nog. But I think it's laughable that you can say Mir is a better fighter when besides Nog, his best wins are Tim Sylvia and Roy Nelson. I guess you could include a green Lesnar on that list too.
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This is where nog fans make me fucking laugh.

Mir comes back from a devastating crash that nearly costs him his life and gets embarrassed by Vera = terrible loss

Nog has staph and gets destroyed by Mir = doesn't count

What was his excuse for the 2nd Mir fight?
 
ShreddinMMA said:
And I have a list of top 10 fighters I doubt Mir could have even lasted with until the end of the bell. Mir gets credit for finishing a legend in the twilight of his career. When that's your biggest accomplishment, that's fairly embarassing.

I guess we should say that at his best, Mike Tyson wasn't as good of a fighter as Buster Douglas. Because your logic basically is in line with that.
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Ummm Mir also has the title wins to his name like the actual UFC title not the paper one like nog. Which he ended up taking off him with an absolutely dominate performance. O wait staph NVM
 
haha wtf man if a random poster made this thread they would get dubbs
 
Mga223 said:
This is where nog fans make me fucking laugh.

Mir comes back from a devastating crash that nearly costs him his life and gets embarrassed by Vera = terrible loss

Nog has staph and gets destroyed by Mir = doesn't count

What was his excuse for the 2nd Mir fight?
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Where did I say losing to Mir doesn't count? I said if Mir was truly the better fighter than Nog throughout his career, he wouldn't lose to people like Vera or Cruz. If anything, you could use the motorcycle excuse for the fight against Cruz. Vera was his third fight after the crash and he had won a fight between those two.
 
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