Francis Ngannou: Lineal HW champion

[GOATweight]

Except the 2006 Pride Grand Prix was Openweight, not Heavyweight.

You're right.

Oh my god.. If we follow your way, that makes Ryan Bader the lineal HW champion. Fedor came back and lost his lineal championship to Mittrione, who lost it to Bader.

Couture -> Inoue -> Vovchanchyn -> Telligman -> Rizzo -> Kharitonov -> Overeem -> Kharitonov -> Monson -> Rizzo -> Emelianenko -> Mittrione -> Bader

 

[acannxr]

Oh my god.. If we follow your way, that makes Ryan Bader the lineal HW champion.

Except Emelianenko vacated the lineal title when he retired, which would make the following undisputed champion the next lineal title holder (JDS/Velasquez).

 

[DayV]

Except the 2006 Pride Grand Prix was Openweight, not Heavyweight.

Openweight = heavyweight.
If there is no weight timit, it means that all fights are heavyweight.
There is no bottom limit for HW, you can be any weight you want.
205 lbs is upper limit for LHW, but it is not bottom limit for HW, it does not exist.
You don't have to be heavier than 93 kg to be a heavyweigh.
You can be any weight you like at HW, you just have to be able to fight competitively.


It is how it all started, who is the absolutely strongest man in the world.
Weight classes are fabricated imaginary limits.

 

[GOATweight]

Except Emelianenko vacated the lineal title when he retired, which would make the following undisputed champion the next lineal title holder (JDS/Velasquez).

But do we just give that undisputed title by default to the UFC champion in your version? What about the Bellator champ? At the time of Fedor's retirement, Junior dos Santos was the UFC champ and Cole Konrad was the (undefeated) Bellator champ. Cole Konrad retired in September 2012 as undefeated Bellator HW champion. Then, Volkov became Bellator HW champion in December 2012, who got defeated by (then undefeated) Vitaly Minakov in November 2013.

 

[Escabar]

The lineal MW title is currently in Bellator:

Bustamante -> Henderson -> Misaki -> Filho -> Paraisy -> Falcao -> Shlemenko -> Halsey -> Carvalho -> Mousasi -> Lovato

Wouldn't Filho loss to Chael count even though Paulo didn't make weight Chael did so title on the line for him?

 

[kenetics]

A story about Francis Ngannou: the current lineal and UFC HW champion

UFC creates the lineal HW championship and loses it to Randy Couture
The story of the lineal HW champion in MMA begins at UFC 12 on 7 February 1997, when Mark Coleman defeated Dan Severn to become the first recognized UFC heavyweight champion. Mark "the Hammer" Coleman lost the title to Maurice Smith at UFC 14 on 27 July 1997, who in turn lost the title to Randy Couture at UFC Japan on 21 December 1997. Randy "the Natural" Couture then got into some contract disputes with the UFC and left, vacating the UFC HW title, but taking the lineal world championship with him.

The unification of the lineal HW championship and the PRIDE HW championship
Randy Couture went to fight in Japan and lost in his next fight against Enson Inoue at "Vale Tudo Japan 1998" on 25 October 1998. Enson Inoue moved together with his lineal HW championship to PRIDE, where he eventually lost it to Mark Kerr in the first round of the PRIDE 2000 Grand Prix on 30 January 2000. Thus the PRIDE era began. Mark Kerr, as a participant in the 3 fights in one night PRIDE 2000 Grand Prix finale that took place on 1 May 2000, put it all on the line. However, he lost the lineal HW championship in the quarterfinals to Kazuyuki Fujita, who then lost to Mark Coleman in the semi-finals. Mark Coleman, now the first two-time lineal HW champion, would go on to win the PRIDE 2000 Grand Prix that night. Mark Coleman would eventually lose to Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira at PRIDE 16 in September 2001. After beating Coleman, Nogueira would fight for and win the newly established PRIDE HW belt in his next fight against Heath Herring and thereby unifying the the lineal HW championship and the PRIDE HW championship.

The long reign of the lineal HW championship by 2 PRIDE heavyweights
Nogueira successfully defended the lineal HW championship a record six times, including wins over (the before mentioned) Heath Herring, former champion Inoue, Bob Sapp, kickboxing legend Sammy Schilt, and Dan Henderson, before losing to Fedor Emelianenko at PRIDE 25 on 16 March 2003. Fedor then had 18 successful lineal HW championship title defenses (and one no-contest against Nogueira) in three different organizations: PRIDE, Affliction and Strikeforce. During his tenures at PRIDE and Affliction, Fedor fought and defeated a who’s who of elite heavyweights (and to be fair, an assortment of lesser opponents as well), including Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Mark Coleman (twice), Fujita, Kevin Randleman, Mirko Cro Cop, Tim Sylvia, and Andrei Arlovski, most of which he dispatched via KO or submission in devastating fashion. After PRIDE folded and subsequently Affiliction folded as well, Fedor moved to Strikeforce and defended the lineal championship one more time against Brett Rogers.

Bringing the lineal HW championship back to the UFC by "The Reem"
In his second Strikeforce fight, Fedor was set to face Fabricio Werdum. On June 26, 2010, the MMA world was caught by surprise (much like Fedor), when Fabricio Werdum managed to catch Fedor in a tight triangle and tapped him out in just over one minute. Considered one of the biggest upsets in MMA history, Fabricio Werdum defeated the Last Emperor and won the lineal heavyweight title in the process. Fabricio Werdum, together with the lineal HW championship, then entered the Strikeforce HW Grand Prix. He lost in the quarterfinals to Alistair Overeem at Strikeforce: Overeem vs. Werdum on 18 June 2011. Alistair Overeem subsequently left Strikeforce and the Strikeforce HW Grand Prix for the UFC, bringing the lineal HW Championship back to the organization that created the title.

Reuniting the lineal HW championship with UFC HW championship
In his first fight, "The Reem" defended the lineal HW championship against Brock Lesnar. Overeem was then set to unify the lineal HW championship with the UFC HW championship against Junior dos Santos in 2012, but a failed drug test would put the lineal HW champ on the sidelines. Overeem came back to fight Antonio "Bigfoot" Silva and lost the lineal HW championship in spectacular fashion, by a vicious KO at UFC 156 on 2 February 2013. In the meantime, Cain Velasquez had captured the UFC HW championship and the title reunification fight between Antonio Silva and Cain Velasquez was set. At UFC 160 on 25 May 2013, Cain Velasquez stops a bloodied up Bigfoot Silva to defend the UFC HW championship and unify it with the lineal HW championship. A new era was born, the undisputed lineal and UFC HW champion, with Cain Velasquez as the first holder of this title since Randy Couture.

The crowning of Francis: undisputed lineal and UFC HW champion
Cain Velasquez defended the title against Junior dos Santos before losing to Fabricio Werdum at UFC 188 on 13 June 2015. The reign of Fabricio Werdum, the second two-time lineal HW champion in history, was short-lived as he lost the championship in his next fight to Stipe Miocic at UFC 198 on 14 May 2016. Stipe went on to defend his title for 3 times before losing to Daniel Cormier at UFC 226 on 7 July 2018. Cormier defended his title once against Derrick Lewis before losing it back to Stipe Miocic at UFC 241 on 17 August 2019. Stipe, now the third two-time lineal HW champion in history, defended the title in his next match and won his trilogy fight against DC. But the title was to change hands soon once more. The rising #1 contender, Francis Ngannou, faced Stipe Miocic for the second time in his career at UFC 260 on 27 March 2021. In this fight, Francis knocks out Stipe to win the undisputed lineal and UFC HW championship. A new king is crowned for the most important title in combat sports: the lineal MMA HW championship.

Collection of alternatives presented by pissed off Sherdoggers (just kidding, love you guys):

1. Fujita didn't really "lose" the title to Coleman in 2000 PRIDE GP, because he didn't fight the match. He just had his corner throw in the towel right away due to injury.

Coleman -> Smith -> Couture -> Inoue -> Kerr -> Fujita -> Cro Cop -> Nogueira -> Fedor -> Werdum -> Overeem -> Bigfoot Silva -> Velasquez -> Werdum -> Miocic -> Ngannou

2. Open weight fights don't count. Only fights contested at HW count.

Version a. The 2000 PRIDE GP doesn't count, because it's open weight.
Coleman -> Smith -> Couture -> Inoue -> Vovchanchyn -> Telligman -> Rizzo -> Kharitonov -> Overeem -> Werdum -> Nogueira -> Barnett -> Nogueira -> Mir -> Lesnar -> Velasquez -> JDS -> Velasquez -> Werdum -> Miocic -> Cormier -> Miocic -> Ngannou

Version b. The 2000 PRIDE GP doesn't count, because it's open weight. Also, the 2006 PRIDE GP doesn't count, also open weight.
Couture -> Inoue -> Vovchanchyn -> Telligman -> Rizzo -> Kharitonov -> Overeem -> Kharitonov -> Monson -> Rizzo -> Emelianenko -> Mittrione -> Bader

3. Royce Gracie should be considered the original HW champion.

Gracie -> Sakuraba -> Vovchanchyn -> Coleman -> Nogueira -> Fedor -> Werdum -> Overeem -> Bigfoot Silva -> Velasquez -> Werdum -> Miocic -> Ngannou

Smh. Once he loses again, you'll be off the train lol.

 

[kflo]

Hilarious seeing people argue which version is more legitimate.......

 

[GOATweight]

Smh. Once he loses again, you'll be off the train lol.

I'm not on or off the hype train. Trying to show the history of the lineal MMA HW championship. Currently, it's Francis. Eventually, it'll be someone else.

 

[Sticko]

Openweight = heavyweight.
If there is no weight timit, it means that all fights are heavyweight.
There is no bottom limit for HW, you can be any weight you want.
205 lbs is upper limit for LHW, but it is not bottom limit for HW, it does not exist.
You don't have to be heavier than 93 kg to be a heavyweigh.
You can be any weight you like at HW, you just have to be able to fight competitively.


It is how it all started, who is the absolutely strongest man in the world.
Weight classes are fabricated imaginary limits.

That's just wrong, 205 is the HW minimum. MMA might not have had that rule in the early days but it does now.

 

[DayV]

That's just wrong, 205 is the HW minimum. MMA might not have had that rule in the early days but it does now.

There was no HW minimum in PRIDE.

Upper 260 lbs HW limit is also UFC unified crap that did not exist.

In Openweight all fighters are heavyweight.

 

[kenetics]

I'm not on or off the hype train. Trying to show the history of the lineal MMA HW championship. Currently, it's Francis. Eventually, it'll be someone else.

Yup. And people will say he was a bum too.

 

[Benoitthegr8]

The lineal MW title is currently in Bellator:

Bustamante -> Henderson -> Misaki -> Filho -> Paraisy -> Falcao -> Shlemenko -> Halsey -> Carvalho -> Mousasi -> Lovato

The original lineal WW title never returned to the UFC:

Miletich -> Nakao -> Kato -> Sakurai -> Anderson Silva

Silva's losses to Takase and Chonan were at Middleweight, his loss to Okami was at 175 lbs, and after that Silva only ever fought at Middleweight or Light Heavyweight.

That’s interesting to know I always thought that the lineal titles retired with GSP

 

[acannxr]

Openweight = heavyweight.

If they're the same then why do they have different names? And if they're the same why does one have no weight requirements while the other does?

If there is no weight timit, it means that all fights are heavyweight.

Heavyweight has a weight limit, it's 265 lbs.

There is no bottom limit for HW, you can be any weight you want.
205 lbs is upper limit for LHW, but it is not bottom limit for HW, it does not exist.
You don't have to be heavier than 93 kg to be a heavyweigh.
You can be any weight you like at HW, you just have to be able to fight competitively.

There is actually a minimum weight for Heavyweight; for instance, the commission required Henderson weigh above 206 lbs for his bout against Emelianenko.

Upper 260 lbs HW limit is also UFC unified crap that did not exist.

The Heavyweight limit is for all U.S. sanctioned fights, not just the UFC, and given that the lineal title has changed hands through several non-UFC/Pride events that took place in the U.S. then you can't just ignore such distinctions all because you don't like the results of where the lineal title ended up.

 

[acannxr]

But do we just give that undisputed title by default to the UFC champion in your version? What about the Bellator champ? At the time of Fedor's retirement, Junior dos Santos was the UFC champ and Cole Konrad was the (undefeated) Bellator champ. Cole Konrad retired in September 2012 as undefeated Bellator HW champion. Then, Volkov became Bellator HW champion in December 2012, who got defeated by (then undefeated) Vitaly Minakov in November 2013.

Find me any rankings at that time that ranked those Bellator Heavyweights anywhere near Velasquez or JDS and we can talk.

 

[acannxr]

Wouldn't Filho loss to Chael count even though Paulo didn't make weight Chael did so title on the line for him?

Their fight was officially a catchweight bout which by the rules of lineal titles makes Sonnen unable to acquire it (though Sonnen should've been eligible for the WEC title).

 

[DayV]

If they're the same then why do they have different names? And if they're the same why does one have no weight requirements while the other does?


Heavyweight has a weight limit, it's 265 lbs.


There is actually a minimum weight for Heavyweight; for instance, the commission required Henderson weigh above 206 lbs for his bout against Emelianenko.


The Heavyweight limit is for all U.S. sanctioned fights, not just the UFC, and given that the lineal title has changed hands through several non-UFC/Pride events that took place in the U.S. then you can't just ignore such distinctions all because you don't like the results of where the lineal title ended up.

You mentioned Pride 2006 Grand Prix, and there did not exist no bottom and no upper limits for HW in PRIDE and openweight = heavyweight.
Every fight with no weight limit is HW.
If 180 lbs Demian Maia can submit Rozenstruik in fight, he is legit heavyweight.

It is totally irrelevant what is now sanctioned in U.S.
There were no freaking sanctions and rubbish in PRIDE.

 

[acannxr]

You mentioned Pride 2006 Grand Prix, and there did not exist no bottom and no upper limits for HW in PRIDE and openweight = heawyweight.

And yet Pride didn't call the 2006 Pride Grand Prix a Heavyweight one (even though they had one of those two years prior), they called it an Openweight one, because even in Pride they had a minimum weight for their Heavyweight division, which is also precisely why Openweight existed.

In other words, Heavyweight and Openweight in Pride were not the same.

 

[DayV]

And yet Pride didn't call the 2006 Pride Grand Prix a Heavyweight one (even though they had one of those two years prior), they called it an Openweight one, because even in Pride they had a minimum weight for their Heavyweight division, which is also precisely why Openweight existed.

In other words, Heavyweight and Openweight in Pride were not the same.

They had no minimum weight for HW in Pride, as it is obvious by fights they made.
In PRIDE rulebook it stands that weight for HW is unlimited.
They called it openweight GP because it means that weight does not matter, everybody are the same weight class.
It means that all who enter accept to fight at HW, and all openweight fights count as heavyweight.
They did not require any weight, only that you have fighting ability to fight there.

 

[Choco]

You could argue I spose Fujita didnt really "lose" the title to Coleman in that he didnt fight the match just had his corner throw in the towel right away due to injury. In that case Crocop actually becomes champ instead before dropping it to Nog in 2003 and then Fedor gets it in 2004 when he beats Nog the second time.

Come to say exactly that. Back in the day. Fujita and Kerr's mutual destrucción stroke me as the most brutal thing ever. I don't want to rewatch the fight. I was a complete noob, and I'm afraid that would be a "meh" fight.

 

[pankrat]

The lineal MW title is currently in Bellator:

Bustamante -> Henderson -> Misaki -> Filho -> Paraisy -> Falcao -> Shlemenko -> Halsey -> Carvalho -> Mousasi -> Lovato

The original lineal WW title never returned to the UFC:

Miletich -> Nakao -> Kato -> Sakurai -> Anderson Silva

Silva's losses to Takase and Chonan were at Middleweight, his loss to Okami was at 175 lbs, and after that Silva only ever fought at Middleweight or Light Heavyweight.

175 is MW division, just like Pride 183.