Media Former UFC top contender John Moraga gives young top boxing prospect tough fight

[tehMoose]

He got destroyed

 

[FB09]

What's ridiculous about that statement?

The part where you said Dustin and Max would be competitive in a boxing match with actual high level boxers

 

[FIghtxIQ]

The part where you said Dustin and Max would be competitive in a boxing match with actual high level boxers

They can be. Their mma boxing skill is high level. Depends on the match up but they can make it competitive. They are one of the few that can transition into pure boxing. They have the timing/patterns/combinations etc of pure boxers. Of course the elite level of boxing is a tough fight even for high level pure boxers. Canelo is making champions look like amateurs, like his most recent fight.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Are there any boxers period who can beat any MMA fighter in MMA?

Funny how you only ask the question one way and not the other

I think it is more likely that a top boxer could win an MMA match than a top MMA fighter could win a boxing match against top guys. Specialists have tools to succeed in MMA, although they also have glaring holes. Well-rounded MMA guys don't have the tools to succeed under specialized rule sets.

But yeah, your point stands. Most top boxers would get embarrassed by top MMA guys under MMA rules.

 

[suizuri]

I train with UFC fighters and other high level fighters from other promotions in mma/kickboxing/muay thai/boxing. I won't speak on my training/sparring but yes I know first hand UFC level fighting.

Better boxing will benefit all mma fighters. They just have a hard time accepting their level of boxing isn't the same level as elite level boxing. There are high level mma boxers, and they do use their boxing advantage to win their fights. So yes high level boxing is effective in mma.

It's not so much the punching technique, it's the timing/patterns/combinations/footwork/movement/pacing/head movement that makes the difference. Same reason why Max drowns fighters with his mma boxing.

People only like to argue this for the most part because it's always been mma vs boxing, so there's always been friction vs the boxing community. It's not like this with wrestling/bjj. People easily accept that high level wrestling/bjj benefits mma fighters and that there are higher level wrestling/bjj fighters that mma fighters would lose to in pure wrestling/bjj.

again, we're not necessarily in disagreement here, but i think you're missing my point (i may also be missing yours). like i said, OF COURSE mma fighters need to learn boxing. of course. of course, better boxing (adjusted to mma) gives an mma fighter advantage. of course. that's not the argument.

"They just have a hard time accepting their level of boxing isn't the same level as elite level boxing."
- this is what im disagreeing with, especially since it's a very sweeping statement. like i said, and keeping things plain and simple, it's different if you train for pure boxing, than when you train "boxing for mma".

"People only like to argue this for the most part because it's always been mma vs boxing, so there's always been friction vs the boxing community."
- this though, i fully agree with. and that's the problem when mma "fans" and boxing "fans" go about the discussion in a close-minded kind of way. close-minded pro-boxing fans will criticize mma fighters for "not having good boxing" without even knowing what they're talking about (some of them not having trained even), and mma defenders usually just react in a butt-hurt sort of way.

at the very least, our points raised are logically discussed here, and while i still think we're not seeing eye-to-eye in all aspects, i think we're kind of reaching a similar understanding of the dynamics here (which goes back to my statements in the paragraph above).

 

[suizuri]

You are discussing 2 different things, striking vs grappling. Boxing isn't the only striking that wrestling takes advantage of. Muay thai stance is basically an invitation to a double leg. Throwing a kick gives your opponent a single leg. It doesn't mean that muay thai isn't effective in mma.

well, there's not much grappling in boxing except clinch work (no takedown threat) so me bringing that up is very valid. and yes, same logic goes to muay thai (thanks for bringing that up); i'd react the same way if someone says "ufc fighters don't have good muay thai" just because their muay thai have been adjusted for the mma setting.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

again, we're not necessarily in disagreement here, but i think you're missing my point (i may also be missing yours). like i said, OF COURSE mma fighters need to learn boxing. of course. of course, better boxing (adjusted to mma) gives an mma fighter advantage. of course. that's not the argument.

"They just have a hard time accepting their level of boxing isn't the same level as elite level boxing."
- this is what im disagreeing with, especially since it's a very sweeping statement. like i said, and keeping things plain and simple, it's different if you train for pure boxing, than when you train "boxing for mma".

"People only like to argue this for the most part because it's always been mma vs boxing, so there's always been friction vs the boxing community."
- this though, i fully agree with. and that's the problem when mma "fans" and boxing "fans" go about the discussion in a close-minded kind of way. close-minded pro-boxing fans will criticize mma fighters for "not having good boxing" without even knowing what they're talking about (some of them not having trained even), and mma defenders usually just react in a butt-hurt sort of way.

at the very least, our points raised are logically discussed here, and while i still think we're not seeing eye-to-eye in all aspects, i think we're kind of reaching a similar understanding of the dynamics here (which goes back to my statements in the paragraph above).

It's not about just adjusting the techniques for mma. It's not that mma fighters have bad boxing, it's just not primarily at the level you find in high/elite level boxing. There are high level mma boxers in mma, so it's not like there are no fighters with high level boxing in mma. But they are few and it's very easy to count the high level mma boxers in mma. It's not just about adjustments, they have longer combinations, different timing, faster pacing, more volume, more movement/footwork, head movment, pull counters, slip and rips, body shots, feints, etc. It's just a more complex understanding of boxing than what you usually see in mma. How many UFC fighters have those skill sets in their boxing? This is why the high level mma boxers have a clear advantage in striking and usually win the fights using their mma boxing. MMA fighters have good boxing technique, but it's a different level compared to the complex level of high/elite level pure boxers.

You can compare it to wrestling/bjj. There are high level wrestlers/bjj fighters in mma, but you can argue that there are elite level pure wrestlers/bjj fighters that compete in wrestling/bjj only. Actually people argue it all the time and mma fighters lose to those fighters in pure wrestling/bjj competitions. It's the same with pure boxing vs mma boxing. There is an elite level in pure boxing where high level mma boxers would most likely lose to in pure boxing. But it doesn't mean that high level boxing isn't effective in mma. Just like it doesn't mean high level wrestling/bjj isn't effective in mma just because they lose in pure grappling competitions.

 

[Mike]

Lmao Moraga wasn't even known as a dangerous striker in mma. And he's getting old. Of course it didn't go well

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Moraga would probably get smashed at chess by a competent chess player too.

 

[Grill master]

Moraga went to touch gloves to start the fight and the boxer opened up with a jab. If it wasn't for that cheap shot I think Moraga would have aniliated that kid. Such a bullshit sport. That's why MMA is better.