Media Former UFC top contender John Moraga gives young top boxing prospect tough fight

not entirely true.

what i agree with is that you're making a point about "using boxing techniques and adjusting them to mma". that is correct.

what i am disagreeing on is that, my point is you can't use all boxing techniques and be as effective in mma. some sacrifices need to be made, and when doing drills, which create muscle memory, there's boxing techniques that you simply can't allow to be drilled into your habits.

@ifindgifsforjackslack gave some examples which are very valid, and i'd like us to tackle them just as examples, not as the be-all-end-all principle of this discussion. slipping a punch and ducking or weaving is not as safe to do in mma as in boxing because of knees, so when drilling, you can't just train to slip/weave/bob when being punched. boxers have the luxury of NOT having to drill leg kick defense, or sprawls. when mma fighters need to incorporate those things in what they need to drill, stances get affected, and distance management, which means that there's simply habits and practices in boxing that will do jack-shit in mma; and mma guys need not pick up on those habits UNLESS THEY WANT TO GO INTO BOXING FOR THE REST OF THEIR FIGHTING CAREERS (in which case it'd make sense that they fully commit to those boxing techniques).
They can be done. I do them because I understand mma and the other striking arts. Of course if you are just using pure boxing in mma with no knowledge or experience of any of the other striking arts, it will be a problem. I have no problem doing any boxing techniques in mma. Every single striking art has to be adusted for mma, not just boxing. Even the grappling arts have to be adjusted for mma because of the striking that is allowed in the grappling/clinching exchanges.
 
not entirely true.

what i agree with is that you're making a point about "using boxing techniques and adjusting them to mma". that is correct.

what i am disagreeing on is that, my point is you can't use all boxing techniques and be as effective in mma. some sacrifices need to be made, and when doing drills, which create muscle memory, there's boxing techniques that you simply can't allow to be drilled into your habits.

@ifindgifsforjackslack gave some examples which are very valid, and i'd like us to tackle them just as examples, not as the be-all-end-all principle of this discussion. slipping a punch and ducking or weaving is not as safe to do in mma as in boxing because of knees, so when drilling, you can't just train to slip/weave/bob when being punched. boxers have the luxury of NOT having to drill leg kick defense, or sprawls. when mma fighters need to incorporate those things in what they need to drill, stances get affected, and distance management, which means that there's simply habits and practices in boxing that will do jack-shit in mma; and mma guys need not pick up on those habits UNLESS THEY WANT TO GO INTO BOXING FOR THE REST OF THEIR FIGHTING CAREERS (in which case it'd make sense that they fully commit to those boxing techniques).
How about just the most basic of kickboxing’s combos. 1 2 leg kick. Most boxers use upper body movement for evasion. Also a lot of the time you can’t even just back out from a combo like that, you need to check the kick. I wonder how many set ups, entries and combos thisdisrupts. Another example, imagine throwing a twelve punch combo on someone who is dying for a clinch or opportunity to take you down lol.

The thing that really bothers me about boxing purists is like “ fighters don’t use boxing because they can’t”

When I think the ufc has made it very very obvious that people will adjust to what works and disregard what doesn’t. If mma fighters realise how shit their boxing is and still choose not to train it, its probably because its not the most effective in MMA. For example, BJJ came into the scene and really showed its effectiveness. Ten years later, every man and their dog practices BJJ for MMA. We've seen good boxers in MMA get absolutely destroyed. So why would an MMA fighter ever practice the PURE form of an art that has shown to be not the most effective in NHB?

Seriously lol, its like these boxing guys make out mma guys CANT box, like they are literally bred in a way that will limit their ability to box. The day boxing shows itself to be as effective in MMA as BJJ, we will see boxing in MMA. Until that day, you guys can keep patting yourselves on the back that boxers beat real fighters, in a boxing match.
 
People always say its money in boxing that prevents these dudes from coming to MMA, but im starting to wonder if fighting 180 cans before you even go pro is what makes them stay.
We have prospects getting thrown to the wolves in like 3 fights, these boxing dudes beat up soccer dads for 18 years lol.

Gane for example, fighting #4 ranked in the world with only 3 years training, because hes showing promise. Boxing - This dude has 180 fights in boxing, and fights a dude with 2 boxing matches, and a journeyman record IN ANOTHER SPORT. Lol.

This says all you need to know about boxing. You are in a bar, there are two guys and you HAVE to fight one. One is paulie malginaggi, one is artem lobov. Anything goes. No rules. Who do you choose to fight?
 
Halloway would do well depending on who he fights. Can't be a power puncher because it may look similar to the Dustin fight unless Halloway has a speed and footwork/movement advantage. But high level boxers are known for great footwork and movement. Both Dustin and Halloway would be able to compete vs high level boxers.
Don't be so ridiculous
 
But Toney faced a former champion in his first fight and it was a one time only freakshow that he didn't even tried properly. Not the same

Moraga Is not trying it as a freakshow fight against no champion. He has a NEGATIVE record against unknown people that are starting out in that sport. That's looks so bad...

Not really? Who even knows John Moraga? Toney was a way bigger name so drew way more attention. Most mma fans couldn't even pick John Moraga out of a line up. He's certainly not drawing any extra eyes to boxing.
 
Fights like these just show the casuals the UFC fighters are chinny cans with no hands.

Are there any MMA fighters apart from Artem who can actually beat a boxer with hands only?
Masvidal , Kattar , Holloway , Ankelaev , McGregor (can't beat Floyd, cause none listed can , but could wreck lower level boxers) ,Adesanya to name a few and there's many more .
 
Artem Lobov beat Paulie Malinaggi. A can from MMA was able to defeat a former world champion in boxing in boxing rules.
That isn't boxing rules. Bare knuckle favors brawlers. Paulie doesn't hit hard enough or have the hands, wrists, knuckles conditioning for bare knuckle. That's why he broke his hand early. Paulie doesn't have a brawling type of fighting style, so a smaller ring and clinch fighting doesn't suit Paulie's style. Artem will always be the favorite in Bare Knuckle and Paulie the favorite in pure boxing rules with gloves on.
 
not entirely true.

what i agree with is that you're making a point about "using boxing techniques and adjusting them to mma". that is correct.

what i am disagreeing on is that, my point is you can't use all boxing techniques and be as effective in mma. some sacrifices need to be made, and when doing drills, which create muscle memory, there's boxing techniques that you simply can't allow to be drilled into your habits.

@ifindgifsforjackslack gave some examples which are very valid, and i'd like us to tackle them just as examples, not as the be-all-end-all principle of this discussion. slipping a punch and ducking or weaving is not as safe to do in mma as in boxing because of knees, so when drilling, you can't just train to slip/weave/bob when being punched. boxers have the luxury of NOT having to drill leg kick defense, or sprawls. when mma fighters need to incorporate those things in what they need to drill, stances get affected, and distance management, which means that there's simply habits and practices in boxing that will do jack-shit in mma; and mma guys need not pick up on those habits UNLESS THEY WANT TO GO INTO BOXING FOR THE REST OF THEIR FIGHTING CAREERS (in which case it'd make sense that they fully commit to those boxing techniques).
Like I said it can be done. I do it easily. There is nothing in my boxing game that I can't do in mma. Everything is about timing and using the right moves at the right time. There isn't a boxing technique offense or defense that can't be done in mma. Just need more practice with the techniques to learn how to be effective with it in mma.

Knees and kicks are only a problem if you have no experience or knowledge of it. Reading knees and kicks is no different than reading punches. The ones that are really good with head movement are not going to be hit with knees. Unless they only slip and dip to one direction every time or their pattern is very simple and easy to time. The good ones will have you kneeing air and getting countered.

Like I said before it's because many don't have pure boxing training/fighting experience. They don't practice the techniques/strategies/footwork/movement/head movement from pure boxing. That's why they can't get it to work. Very few fighters have good footwork/movement in mma, and even less have good head movement.
 
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How about just the most basic of kickboxing’s combos. 1 2 leg kick. Most boxers use upper body movement for evasion. Also a lot of the time you can’t even just back out from a combo like that, you need to check the kick. I wonder how many set ups, entries and combos thisdisrupts. Another example, imagine throwing a twelve punch combo on someone who is dying for a clinch or opportunity to take you down lol.

The thing that really bothers me about boxing purists is like “ fighters don’t use boxing because they can’t”

When I think the ufc has made it very very obvious that people will adjust to what works and disregard what doesn’t. If mma fighters realise how shit their boxing is and still choose not to train it, its probably because its not the most effective in MMA. For example, BJJ came into the scene and really showed its effectiveness. Ten years later, every man and their dog practices BJJ for MMA. We've seen good boxers in MMA get absolutely destroyed. So why would an MMA fighter ever practice the PURE form of an art that has shown to be not the most effective in NHB?

Seriously lol, its like these boxing guys make out mma guys CANT box, like they are literally bred in a way that will limit their ability to box. The day boxing shows itself to be as effective in MMA as BJJ, we will see boxing in MMA. Until that day, you guys can keep patting yourselves on the back that boxers beat real fighters, in a boxing match.
You do know that Max, Dustin, Conor and Gaethje vs Tony, and others win their fights by being the better mma boxer than their opponents right? They highlight mma's weakness in boxing.
 
You do know that Max, Dustin, Conor and Gaethje vs Tony, and others win their fights by being the better mma boxer than their opponents right? They highlight mma's weakness in boxing.
BASIC boxing, they aren't drilling the exact same combinations as boxers, or the same slips, or even teh same footwork.
Its just basic boxing ontop of a well rounded fighter.
 
Like I said it can be done. I do it easily. There is nothing in my boxing game that I can't do in mma. Everything is about timing and using the right moves at the right time. There isn't a boxing technique offense or defense that can't be done in mma. Just need more practice with the techniques to learn how to be effective with it in mma.

Knees and kicks are only a problem if you have no experience or knowledge of it. Reading knees and kicks is no different than reading punches. The ones that are really good with head movement are not going to be hit with knees. Unless they only slip and dip to one direction every time or their pattern is very simple and easy to time. The good ones will have you kneeing air and getting countered.

Like I said before it's because many don't have pure boxing training/fighting experience. They don't practice the techniques/strategies/footwork/movement/head movement from pure boxing. That's why they can't get it to work. Very few fighters have good footwork/movement in mma, and even less have good head movement.
Philly shell, for a headkick?
 
Fights like these just show the casuals the UFC fighters are chinny cans with no hands.

Are there any MMA fighters apart from Artem who can actually beat a boxer with hands only?
plenty. now be reigning champions im not sure. but grab some wins and be competitive yeah id think so
 
They can be done. I do them because I understand mma and the other striking arts. Of course if you are just using pure boxing in mma with no knowledge or experience of any of the other striking arts, it will be a problem. I have no problem doing any boxing techniques in mma. Every single striking art has to be adusted for mma, not just boxing. Even the grappling arts have to be adjusted for mma because of the striking that is allowed in the grappling/clinching exchanges.

Like I said it can be done. I do it easily. There is nothing in my boxing game that I can't do in mma. Everything is about timing and using the right moves at the right time. There isn't a boxing technique offense or defense that can't be done in mma. Just need more practice with the techniques to learn how to be effective with it in mma.

Knees and kicks are only a problem if you have no experience or knowledge of it. Reading knees and kicks is no different than reading punches. The ones that are really good with head movement are not going to be hit with knees. Unless they only slip and dip to one direction every time or their pattern is very simple and easy to time. The good ones will have you kneeing air and getting countered.

Like I said before it's because many don't have pure boxing training/fighting experience. They don't practice the techniques/strategies/footwork/movement/head movement from pure boxing. That's why they can't get it to work. Very few fighters have good footwork/movement in mma, and even less have good head movement.

i assure you im not trying to be a dick, but how "successful" are you, really? do you claim to be able to beat ufc fighters in your own weight class, just because you have "better boxing for mma"?

i train both as well. to say that boxing skills are needed in mma, is OF COURSE true, same as how mma fighters all need to learn grappling. that's NOT really the argument here. the argument here is that some ignorant boxing fans criticize "mma striking" as being inferior to boxing, which is just dumb. mma striking involves a lot more than boxing since it involves more limbs, threats of takedowns, etc.

so if you feel that "pure boxers will beat mma fighters in pure boxing", threre'd be no arguments there. just like when i'd say that mma fighters will school boxers in an mma match. the argument here is whether or not mma fighters in general have inferior punching technique. the answer is no. their punching technique is DIFFERENT, because it is mma striking, not boxing, that they're drilling for.
 
You do know that Max, Dustin, Conor and Gaethje vs Tony, and others win their fights by being the better mma boxer than their opponents right? They highlight mma's weakness in boxing.

and look at where all that boxing went when they faced khabib, who NO WAY has good "boxing" (in the purest form) but simply has unorthodox striking that he merges into his takedown (feints, set ups, etc). these fighters you mentioned with "better boxing (in mma)" were unable to do well on the feet against a guy who is not doing boxing basics, just because this is an mma match, and a lot has to be taken into consideration.
 
Fights like these just show the casuals the UFC fighters are chinny cans with no hands.

Are there any MMA fighters apart from Artem who can actually beat a boxer with hands only?
Are there any boxers period who can beat any MMA fighter in MMA?

Funny how you only ask the question one way and not the other
 
He fought Marc Castro who is one of the hyped prospects in boxing on the DAZN card of Canelo Alvarez on Saturday, they posted it on DAZN Youtube channel

Moraga was a late replacement and he held his own and gave the much bigger younger and stronger boxer a tough fight.



Anyone whos putting stock in this as a MMA vs boxing fight is just silly lol....

Couldnt be more of unfair match up if you want to talk about comparing the two sports...36 year old short notice mma guy vs full camp much younger prospect with the size and reach advantage...



Biggggg shockkerr who won lmfao

Not impressed ..
 
Fights like these just show the casuals the UFC fighters are chinny cans with no hands.

Are there any MMA fighters apart from Artem who can actually beat a boxer with hands only?

Clay Collard

Also depends who you call a "boxer". There are so many boxers in the world that the worst of them might die if they attempt a one mile run.
 
i assure you im not trying to be a dick, but how "successful" are you, really? do you claim to be able to beat ufc fighters in your own weight class, just because you have "better boxing for mma"?

i train both as well. to say that boxing skills are needed in mma, is OF COURSE true, same as how mma fighters all need to learn grappling. that's NOT really the argument here. the argument here is that some ignorant boxing fans criticize "mma striking" as being inferior to boxing, which is just dumb. mma striking involves a lot more than boxing since it involves more limbs, threats of takedowns, etc.

so if you feel that "pure boxers will beat mma fighters in pure boxing", threre'd be no arguments there. just like when i'd say that mma fighters will school boxers in an mma match. the argument here is whether or not mma fighters in general have inferior punching technique. the answer is no. their punching technique is DIFFERENT, because it is mma striking, not boxing, that they're drilling for.
I train with UFC fighters and other high level fighters from other promotions in mma/kickboxing/muay thai/boxing. I won't speak on my training/sparring but yes I know first hand UFC level fighting.

Better boxing will benefit all mma fighters. They just have a hard time accepting their level of boxing isn't the same level as elite level boxing. There are high level mma boxers, and they do use their boxing advantage to win their fights. So yes high level boxing is effective in mma.

It's not so much the punching technique, it's the timing/patterns/combinations/footwork/movement/pacing/head movement that makes the difference. Same reason why Max drowns fighters with his mma boxing.

People only like to argue this for the most part because it's always been mma vs boxing, so there's always been friction vs the boxing community. It's not like this with wrestling/bjj. People easily accept that high level wrestling/bjj benefits mma fighters and that there are higher level wrestling/bjj fighters that mma fighters would lose to in pure wrestling/bjj.
 
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and look at where all that boxing went when they faced khabib, who NO WAY has good "boxing" (in the purest form) but simply has unorthodox striking that he merges into his takedown (feints, set ups, etc). these fighters you mentioned with "better boxing (in mma)" were unable to do well on the feet against a guy who is not doing boxing basics, just because this is an mma match, and a lot has to be taken into consideration.
You are discussing 2 different things, striking vs grappling. Boxing isn't the only striking that wrestling takes advantage of. Muay thai stance is basically an invitation to a double leg. Throwing a kick gives your opponent a single leg. It doesn't mean that muay thai isn't effective in mma.
 
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