Former top Vatican official says pope should resign over abuse crisis

[luckyshot]

On a dopeness scale of 1 - 10, how dope is it that he knew about some of the allegations before they were ever made public, and in response did nothing? For me, that's something like a -29.

He’s the head of the largest hierarchy in the world. He charged local Subordinates to investigate— as he should have. What would you have him do?

The big reveal is still to come.

Spoiler

That they dont't get taken to the woodshed over these crimes because they're providing the kids for everybody else

Thanks, Q.

 

[TidWell]

 

[Darth_Inv1ctu5]

You Catholic?

Atheist. But this dude makes me.hate Catholic Church a bit less by the virtue of being a very down-to-earth, open to church evolving with times and overall critical of areas where criticism was due. He's got a big job ahead of him but he seems like a good man.

 

[Slick_36]

Basically. The conservative wing of the Catholic Church loathes
Pope Francis and is trying to pin a problem that is decades— probably centuries— old on him.

Pure crap.

Pope Francis has been the most open Pope, by far. He has admitted the scale, depth, and scandal of the abuse, something no other Pope has even come close to doing.



The Church has failed miserably in not expelling these abusive priests much earlier, but it is simply false, statistically, that Catholic priests are more likely to abuse children than any other group of men.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ut-clergy-sexual-abuse-in-the-catholic-church

This is what I figured was happening. No way he has said the stuff he has without creating enemies looking to take him down.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The Church should be above this, and SHOULD be held to a higher standard, but this isn’t just a Church problem.

I do wonder to what extent the Church does unintentionally create this sort of problem. My pet theory has always been that the vow of celibacy is partly to blame. Sure merely being deprived of sex isn't going to turn you into a pedo and I imagine many priests break their vows of celibacy in less unsavory ways to say the least.

But I think for some priests, being given that authority over children combined with the vow of celibacy leads to a case of a lapse of self control in the form of abuse. And of course if you're not punished for it but your sinister misdeed is instead covered up then there's no disincentive that would lead you to stop. Its probably more risky for a Catholic priest to have an affair with an adult woman than it is for them to diddle kids.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Pope Francis asked for God's forgiveness for clerical child sex abuse during recent visit to Ireland.

So he's obviously got this, guys.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nock-shrine-pilgrim-forgiveness-a8508451.html

 

[luckyshot]

I do wonder to what extent the Church does unintentionally create this sort of problem. My pet theory has always been that the vow of celibacy is partly to blame. Sure merely being deprived of sex isn't going to turn you into a pedo and I imagine many priests break their vows of celibacy in less unsavory ways to say the least.

But I think for some priests, being given that authority over children combined with the vow of celibacy leads to a case of a lapse of self control in the form of abuse. And of course if you're not punished for it but your sinister misdeed is instead covered up then there's no disincentive that would lead you to stop. Its probably more risky for a Catholic priest to have an affair with an adult woman than it is for them to diddle kids.

While what you are saying sounds plausible, statistically, it’s just not true that Catholic priests abused anyone at a much higher rate than the general population. So, it’s tough to pin it on celibacy.

@ultramanhyata
He also asked for victims’ forgiveness, personally met with survivors, and took their specific input on how he should address the nation... so, once again, doesn’t make the harm magically better, but I’m not sure what you’d have this specific man say differently.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Lol, that was my thought when I read the thread title.

But even still, something must be done about this problem. The Catholic Church is a notoriously difficult institution to reform and that seems to me to be by design. I think that's part of its strength too, its ability to hold on to its traditions and customs. But some traditions are sinister and need to go and unfortunately this pedo thing seems to be quite a deeply rooted, sinister tradition.

The difficulty in reforming the church is by design. The intention is to keep the church from being too easily influenced by contemporary social trends and people with an agenda. In order to make changes there is a lot of rigorous debate that must be based on scripture and Catholic theology. It is something that has allowed the Church to stay around for so long. An institution does not stay rooted by swaying every which way the wind blows.

It is difficult to understand why the church will not open up about the pedophilia filth. There is nothing in scripture or theology that supports pedophilia or justifies hiding the scandals. In fact, scripture and theology indicates the opposite in that sexual misconduct like pedophilia is considered a very serious offense (a mortal sin) that the Catholic church should be very diligent about stopping.

Catholic tradition and reform have to do with stopping the church from allowing the authorities to do their job and clean out the filth.

 

[cincymma79]

Didn’t hear happen years before frank the tank took over

 

[Grenz]

He’s the head of the largest hierarchy in the world. He charged local Subordinates to investigate— as he should have. What would you have him do?

Open up the Catholic Church to a true unbiased, independent inquiry, including unbridled access to Vatican records. Also, he should have suspended the guy as soon as allegations surfaced, that's a no-brainer.

 

[GhostZ06]

Pope Francis is actually pretty legit....

So how about no

 

[jax7]

I still can't believe those that defend Pope Francis or say he is "legit." You must not be Catholic or are a heretic. There is no other option at this point.

I don't have the time to list all of his failings, but let's look at his inner circle first. I implore everyone to search these names and include the word scandal. Daneels, Cupich, McCarrick, Wuerl, Tobin. And last but not least father James Martin.

Look up how he handled the recent scandal in Chile involving a bishop there. Look up the Dubia. How about the gay sex parties and porno in the Vatican apartments? He is scandalous period.

How do Catholics expect to bring home our Protestant brothers when the Pope openly encourages homosexual behavior? He has tried to change the dogmatic teachings on the death penalty, and allowing divorced and remarried couples to receive Holy Communion. The list goes on and on. Any time he opens his mouth about holy scripture he makes a fool of himself. Just search up his thoughts on what the multiplication of fish and loaves was all about.

It's time for those supporting him to openly admit that you want a church that embraces a total reimagining of the Church and it's doctrines. For those who claim this is a "conservative" smear campaign. THERE IS NO CONSERVATIVE OR LIBERAL, ONLY CATHOLIC! You either accept all the churches teachings or not. It's time for him to resign and clean out the homosexual mafia that took over the seminaries and ultimately the highest offices of the Church.

 

[ShinkanPo]

It’s why they have their own “country”. The last pope can’t leave or he’d be arrested, I’m sure he’s taught Francis a thing or two

Invade and bomb their country then or put tarrifs on their products until they release the older pope.

 

[jax7]

He’s the head of the largest hierarchy in the world. He charged local Subordinates to investigate— as he should have. What would you have him do?


Thanks, Q.

How about not bringing Cardinal Daneels into his inner circle. He even had him on the balcony after his election. Yes the same Daneels from Belgium who openly covered up sex abuse. Or was he unaware of what the whole world knew? Keep your head in the sand because he talks about poor people alot. Oh and he is so non Judgemental right? Even though it's his basic purpose to uphold and defend the doctrines of the Church even when it makes him Judgemental!

 

[DIDM]

@dontsnitch

They keep very detailed records, it’s kinda nuts that the church hasn’t lost tax exemption, but they are probably the richest religion, they own more land than god

 

[Grenz]

Pope Francis is actually pretty legit....

So how about no

He's legit involved in covering up child molestation.

 

[jax7]

He's legit involved in covering up child molestation.

Thank you. Don't know if you're Catholic, but doesn't matter we need to acknowledge and clean house.

 

[squeezewax]

The pope geezer knows how to reduce all the molestation, let priests marry once again.

 

[Grenz]

Thank you. Don't know if you're Catholic, but doesn't matter we need to acknowledge and clean house.

That's the point I'm trying to make: Forget about the religion aspect. If you strip that away, you're left with a massive organization that has a systemic problem with pedophilia (i can't think of too many things I would really consider 'evil', but pedophilia qualifies) Then consider that there's constantly new cases emerging, and now we know that the highest levels (including the current pope) of the organization had prior knowledge of this behaviour. That's called a cover-up, it's not complicated. If this were any other entity, a secular charity or a business for example, we would shut that shit down fast, it wouldn't matter who was running it. And it's irrelevant in this case as well, there's a problem that hasn't been dealt with (if you believe that only one or two generations of priests indulged in this behaviour, you're simply coming to illogical conclusions), and any leadership that comes from within that organization will not be sufficient to root it out. Hence, open it all up, let independent investigators see how long this has been going on for, and just how extensive it really is.

 

[jax7]

That's no bueno for sure but to what extent does the Pope have the power to change the Catholic Church as whole and especially on such an intractable problem as this? To an extent he should bear some responsibility as the head honcho but as @luckyshot said he has at least gone much further than his predecessors on this issue and for an institution like the Catholic Church that is slow to reform that counts for something.

The fact is he hasn't gone further than his predecessors. He openly elevated Daneels to top position, the same Daneels who hid sex abuse a young man endured from a Belgium bishop who was also the boys uncle. He also removed some of the penalties Pope Benedict put in place on those suspected of abuse. The list goes on and on but go ahead and worship at the cult of Francis. I'll stick with Traditional Church and it's teachings over this neo modernist and his cronies.