Foreman Vs Ali, new impressions

[Hirashin]

I rewatched this fight after so many years (haven't we all). There are my impressions:

-Foreman had absolutely no respekt for Ali's punching power. Didn't even try block or evade the punches. Not once.
-Foreman was walking through Ali and winning the rounds. I didn't count the punches to verify this, but it looked it was all Foreman. I might do this another time as counting punches is very important.
-The audience was extremely anti Foreman.
-That was the fastest 10 count I'v ever witnessed in the sport. From falling down to canvas to count 7 it only took 8 seconds. Foreman was up at count 8, but the fight was stopped ntl. It seems that the ref was anti Foreman too.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Foreman has already stated he knew he wasn't going to win that fight because Ali was mentally stronger that night.

He hit Ali with everything and Ali didn't go down. It freaked George out when Ali took everything and fought back.

Not too different than Tyson folding once he knew he couldn't bully holyfield.

 

[Roids]

Ali was ahead on points at the stoppage. Looked like Foreman quit by taking so long to get up when he wasn't badly hurt.

 

[Jayofteror]

One should never underestimate the incredible chin and heart of Ali. Too often we are mesmerized by his speed and antics in the ring. Make no mistake about it, Ali could have gone toe to toe with Foreman if he wanted to and still won the fight by knock out. Ali was too smart for Forman; he wanted to bring his prey into deep waters before he attacked. Ali would beat any version of Forman because he had superior skills and superior mental toughness.

 

[mozfonky]

I rewatched this fight after so many years (haven't we all). There are my impressions:

-Foreman had absolutely no respekt for Ali's punching power. Didn't even try block or evade the punches. Not once.
-Foreman was walking through Ali and winning the rounds. I didn't count the punches to verify this, but it looked it was all Foreman. I might do this another time as counting punches is very important.
-The audience was extremely anti Foreman.
-That was the fastest 10 count I'v ever witnessed in the sport. From falling down to canvas to count 7 it only took 8 seconds. Foreman was up at count 8, but the fight was stopped ntl. It seems that the ref was anti Foreman too.

you're half right and half wrong. foreman may not have had respect for ali's power before the fight but the first thing ali did was to meet George in the center of the ring and hit him with a hard right. After a few of those, george started flinching. The reason george didn't evade punches was that that wasn't his style, he had no head movement whatsoever.

Ali let george have a few rounds, even so, he still was ahead at the end, deservedly.

the ref did a shitty job, he wasn't the first or last to fall under the ali spell, he let ali get away with anything, and yes, the count is on the short side but ali would have beaten him anyway.

 

[spacetime]

-Foreman was walking through Ali and winning the rounds. I didn't count the punches to verify this, but it looked it was all Foreman. I might do this another time as counting punches is very important.
-.

?? Foreman barely won a round or two.

 

[spacetime]

The one thing Foreman could have done much better was to use his jab. But other than that completely outclassed.

 

[Hirashin]

Foreman has already stated he knew he wasn't going to win that fight because Ali was mentally stronger that night.

He hit Ali with everything and Ali didn't go down. It freaked George out when Ali took everything and fought back.

Not too different than Tyson folding once he knew he couldn't bully holyfield.

I think its completely different approach. Tyson couldn't get going against Evander, couldn't deliver his punches and was getting head butted (according to him) and beaten to the punch, so eventually that lead to feeling helpless, getting beat up and losing the fight. In contrast, Foreman hit Ali with tremendous punches, many landed, but Ali didn't fold, he preserved energy and was picking his shots. He took a lot of unnecessary damage, maybe leading to CTE and other health problems later on.

Ali was ahead on points at the stoppage. Looked like Foreman quit by taking so long to get up when he wasn't badly hurt.

The ref started counting immediately and he started with 'two'. But Foreman didn't complain, but then again fighters were not sisses back then, didn't complain too much.

One should never underestimate the incredible chin and heart of Ali. Too often we are mesmerized by his speed and antics in the ring. Make no mistake about it, Ali could have gone toe to toe with Foreman if he wanted to and still won the fight by knock out. Ali was too smart for Forman; he wanted to bring his prey into deep waters before he attacked. Ali would beat any version of Forman because he had superior skills and superior mental toughness.

Nobody underestimates Ali, he was incredible boxer in all aspects of the game.

The one thing Foreman could have done much better was to use his jab. But other than that completely outclassed.

Foreman should have just picked his shots better and defend some shots. I know he was on the receiving end of the mental warfair, but he was winning the rounds imo. With a smarter approach, he would have won the fight.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

i believe the commentator was wrong on the count.

the ref counted ten when Foreman was just getting up

 

[Hagler]

foreman may not have had respect for ali's power before the fight but the first thing ali did was to meet George in the center of the ring and hit him with a hard right. After a few of those, george started flinching. The reason george didn't evade punches was that that wasn't his style, he had no head movement whatsoever.

Ali let george have a few rounds, even so, he still was ahead at the end, deservedly.

This. Mailer gave a great account of the fight and he showed how important was its very beginning.

 

[mozfonky]

i believe the commentator was wrong on the count.

the ref counted ten when Foreman was just getting up

he did, absolutely but it was a little faster than most counts and he seemed to rush it to end the fight, zack favored ali, not the first or last time an official has favored a fighter. In fact, Zack Clayton quit his job as a fireman to attempt to ref in manila, eddie futch stopped him, used his influence to not let him do it and only said that zack did things in the foreman fight to make him question his honesty. He didn't say what but I think the count was one thing, perhaps all the wrestling ali did was another, the ropes, the loose ropes were an accident by all accounts. the ring was a "slow" ring meaning it wasn't built for a fighter to move on, ali noted this earlier and knew his legs would tire so he did what only he could think of to do.

 

[TheGreatA]

you're half right and half wrong. foreman may not have had respect for ali's power before the fight but the first thing ali did was to meet George in the center of the ring and hit him with a hard right. After a few of those, george started flinching. The reason george didn't evade punches was that that wasn't his style, he had no head movement whatsoever.

Ali let george have a few rounds, even so, he still was ahead at the end, deservedly.

the ref did a shitty job, he wasn't the first or last to fall under the ali spell, he let ali get away with anything, and yes, the count is on the short side but ali would have beaten him anyway.

Ali actually stopped dancing around and throwing those punches because he saw that they had no real effect. I think the "rope-a-dope" was more of a mid-fight adjustment to George's incredible chin and ability to cut off the ring. Ali himself would've gassed out in that temperature if he had kept doing what he tried to do in the first round.

I think, for a moment, he kind of tried to see if Foreman could be handled like Fury handled Wilder, by pushing him back and hurting the puncher. But that just wasn't going to happen. Foreman was like a walking tank, the only way to stop him, is by making him run out of gas.

I didn't really see any significant flinching on Foreman's part, he was bull-dozing like usual and ignored the punches he was hit with, until the last combination. If anything he was over-aggressive and sloppier than usual, against the likes of Frazier and Norton he did show some degree of respect to their power.

This kind of wild-swinging was pretty unusual even by his standards:

 

[SandaKicker]

I agree with this breakdown of the fight;



The Ali right hand was as much of a factor in the fight as his going to the ropes.

Foreman wasn't visibly hurt at any stage aside from the knockdown but I think he had to be feeling it.

 

[spacetime]

[QUOTE="SandaKicker, post: 161065361,
The Ali right hand was as much of a factor in the fight as his going to the ropes.

[/QUOTE]

The straight right which he never employed before was huge in beating Foreman

 

[spacetime]

And yeah, Ali never punched better and harder than in that fight. He finally sat down on them

 

[mozfonky]

I agree with this breakdown of the fight;



The Ali right hand was as much of a factor in the fight as his going to the ropes.

Foreman wasn't visibly hurt at any stage aside from the knockdown but I think he had to be feeling it.

he gave him an old fashioned ghetto whipping, broke his heart and it took ten years to put it back together.

 

[spacetime]

he gave him an old fashioned ghetto whipping, broke his heart and it took ten years to put it back together.

What surprised me is that Foreman used the exact same strategy Liston did, which everybody knew doesn't work, yet he goes ahead and repeats history.

 

[mozfonky]

Ali actually stopped dancing around and throwing those punches because he saw that they had no real effect. I think the "rope-a-dope" was more of a mid-fight adjustment to George's incredible chin and ability to cut off the ring. Ali himself would've gassed out in that temperature if he had kept doing what he tried to do in the first round.

I think, for a moment, he kind of tried to see if Foreman could be handled like Fury handled Wilder, by pushing him back and hurting the puncher. But that just wasn't going to happen. Foreman was like a walking tank, the only way to stop him, is by making him run out of gas.

I didn't really see any significant flinching on Foreman's part, he was bull-dozing like usual and ignored the punches he was hit with, until the last combination. If anything he was over-aggressive and sloppier than usual, against the likes of Frazier and Norton he did show some degree of respect to their power.

This kind of wild-swinging was pretty unusual even by his standards:

ali outwrestled george in the clinches, he tired him out doing it and you're talking ali, a guy who fought in manila and in Malaysia in hotter conditions. Foreman, to his credit, had superb training on cutting off the ring, ali says he saw how in the first round, george took one step to his three and knew right there he had to figure out something, and he did. Ali staggered him at more than once and landed great lead rights all along. Ali had good power in his straight right in those years, his only real potent punch.

 

[mozfonky]

What surprised me is that Foreman used the exact same strategy Liston did, which everybody knew doesn't work, yet he goes ahead and repeats history.

those kinds generally only know one way to fight, he had a bigger toolbox than that but he was drunk on kayoing guys, ali, the ring genius he was, knew exactly how george thought. Would another strategy have made a difference? I doubt it, george could have stepped back when ali went to the ropes and invited ali to a fight in center ring, he'd still never kayo ali, he may have done more damage and went the distance but he would have lost the decision.

 

[spacetime]

those kinds generally only know one way to fight, he had a bigger toolbox than that but he was drunk on kayoing guys, ali, the ring genius he was, knew exactly how george thought. Would another strategy have made a difference? I doubt it, george could have stepped back when ali went to the ropes and invited ali to a fight in center ring, he'd still never kayo ali, he may have done more damage and went the distance but he would have lost the decision.

How about using the all time great jab which was a god damn monster against everybody else? Foreman had a better jab than Liston and superior ringcraftmanship, aka better fighter, better record, etc.