for those who train guys and those who train

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by devante, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,709
    Likes Received:
    484
    Location:
    satx
    as an instructor or trainer or coach, how do you work w/a guy who doesn't do things the exact way you want or maybe has aspects to his game you don't agree w/; wether it be the application of the tech taught, maybe tech he/she mixes in w/what you have taught, or maybe their philosophical approach to what your teaching.

    i ask this cus you see guys like roy jones jr, keith jardine, emmanuel augustus, nick/nate diaz, muhammed ali; im using pro guys as an example, an all their coaches are legit guys..fundamental and technical. Yet their students have shown rather unique, unorthodox application of said tech, either cus of their physical ability, physical limitations, mindset or whatever. I mean none of us does things the exact same way; but some of us do things quite differently, wether it be the art as a whole or certain aspects of it (clinching, punching, kicking, counters, offense, def, entries, exits)

    guys like naseem hamed, were trained in an unorthodox manner; so they don't count, the same for kikuno or machida, who were trained in a manner that supports exactly how they do things.

    but for guys who are tech-fundamentalist, how do you balance this out, how do you handle this; is it based on how effective the guy can be doing things his way, do you just try to clean up or tighten up what he does, do you try to impose your way on him, do you balance him out w/ off-def that supplements him.

    alot of trainers i know try not to tinker too much, instead seeking to find out why the guy does what he does, how it works, what is good about it, what is bad; an then try to strengthen his all round base so as to make things more effective. But i wanted to know what you think.

    thoughts/opinions

    also for the forum, we all train; so have you had trainers and coaches really revamp your style or things of that nature or did they try to work w/what you had and go from there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  2. devante

    devante Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,709
    Likes Received:
    484
    Location:
    satx
    i remember reading an interview by andre ward's trainer and he was saying that if a guy does something diff, but it works WELL for him; then he finds a way to work it into the system of boxing he teaches, even if something doesn't work all the time he finds ways to add onto it to make it effective.

    but some coaches aren't like that, they want rigid military execution; some don't, some have styles that can fit anyone, some have styles that only fit certain mindsets and physical skillsets.
     
  3. giscanada

    giscanada Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Prince Albert, Saskatchewan
    The sign of a good coach is "do as I say, not as I do". - GSP
     
  4. Machete Juarez

    Machete Juarez Blue Belt Professional Fighter

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Sunspear
    When I was starting out in boxing, I was passed around a lot from trainer to trainer (didn't have much cash). I mostly adapted to the style of my current trainer. The first one was one of those guys with 2 amateur bouts and 60 professional, who just came in there and banged with the other guy, so I started out rather heavy-handed. He passed me off to an extremely technical one who taught me slick moves and footwork, so I started utilizing angles and the liver punch. Then I got a guy with an extensive amateur background, so I learned to move in and out quickly, circle the opponent, and throw combinations. Eventually, I developed my own style over the years (pressuring). I was never as strong or as technical or as fast as they wanted me to be, but those attributes did improve with each one. I guess after that my trainer just took it from there.

    When I trained guys (didn't train a lot of high-level dudes), I just made sure that they drilled the basics over and over and over. Then, after they start to develop their own style, we worked towards that (while still sharpening the fundamentals). But I pretty much had a generic lesson plan, because let's face it: a lot of people don't have the patience to train long and hard enough to develop their own style.

    Hehehehehehehehehehe... Long and hard...
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  5. TwoFour Lowkick

    TwoFour Lowkick Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    I had a big problem with this with my old coach. He had the my way or highway mentality. He had a good chin and a brawling style and tried to teach us all the same, which I hated. I wanted to learn muay thai, not brawling so I explored different gyms around the city. I picked up things from gyms, some things i liked, some i didn't and this upset him because it wasn't his style.

    This was particularly annoying b/c my style resulted in me tkoing 2 of his top guys during sparring (accidental... I have heavy kicks and learned to time right crosses with lead leg roundhouses...) and led to me taking MUCH less damage during sparring. One of the gyms I trained at was more of a dutch style and i learn to kinda whip my body kicks. This gave me a MUCH harder and faster body kick, but he didn't like it and tried to make me change back to his shitty leaning back style. This turned me off to the point that I changed gyms. A coach should accept that everyone's bodies are different and not all people can adapt to the same style and be flexible.
     
  6. RealDealSteele

    RealDealSteele White Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Alabama
    My trainers look at what ever I do well during training sessions and let me do those things. What skills I am lacking they will teach me or build on that part of my game. A lot of times since my coaches know that I'll do exactly what they ask me to do they'll show me a technique then tell me when they would want me to use it or what situation to look for it in. I think it depends on who your coaches are as a fighter and what habits you have. Also if I am starting to freelance too much they'll stop the session and correct me. I am not allowed to freelance at all when I am working technique. My boxing coach is good about that. I think as a coach you would have to know your fighter's limits and his skill set. I think as a fighter you have to really trust and believe what your coaches are telling you.
     
  7. DaGenius

    DaGenius Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    10,643
    Likes Received:
    1,730
    When you first start. You should be learning the proper fundamentals. After you have mastered those, you can then start creating your own style. when you first start training, you shouldnt be thinking Ali. you should be thinking like Ali thought when he was first training. Jab, Jab, Cross. basics etc.

    Yes we are all different but when you see 10 new people in training and 9 of them execute a proper leg kick and one of them does not, you cant just automatically say "well we are all different and he is doing it his way". Wrong. In short, in the beginning, it should be a my way or the highway relationship between you and your trainer. If you dont trust in your trainer, you shouldnt be studying with them

    sorry to pour a lot of cold water on this but i have found with most sports athletes can execute the fundamentals the same way if they listen and focus
     
  8. BigInJapan

    BigInJapan Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,481
    Likes Received:
    184
    I just watch my kru and try to replicate his style
     
  9. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    I let that person do what they want. If it works in sparring consistently then i don't care if it's different than what I do. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses and we all bring something different to the table.

    If what he does provides desired results, there's no reason to change it IMO. Instead I would focus on cleaning up fundamental flaws that ARE inhibiting performance and/or teach new things that aren't currently on the toolbox.

    That's pretty much what I would do if I'm there to improve application skill devoid of "style" preference. But if someone wanted specific strategies and tactics from a particular system...then I would teach based on heuristics of that system.

    In my past, if someone showed me something I could pretty much do it right then and there (with regard to standup stuff). For me, I look at things from a broad angle lens; "styles" and the various techniques within them aren't too different from one another from a mechanics standpoint...it's all based on human anatomy and that hasn't changed for a loooong time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  10. 663

    663 White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    I try not to change anything that works. I teach my guys the fundamentals and just back up what they do. a good coach will identify what works for their fighter and strengthen it, everyone will have different styles, but have the same fundamentals.
     
  11. xilliun

    xilliun Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    3,344
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Australia
    I imagine its teaching them the fundamentals then letting the individual adapt that to their own style.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.