Opinion For the lefties out there, what issue would you sacrifice?

[Big Nasty Edison]

I always thought the left should just give em the damn wall.

I though Pelosi tried. Full wall funding in exchange for the dreamers getting citizenship but Trump walked.

 

[Fugazy]

Why do the lefties in this thread keep bringing up ARs with gun control when the vast, overwhelming amount of kills/shootings are committed with handguns?

 

[Fugazy]

I though Pelosi tried. Full wall funding in exchange for the dreamers getting citizenship but Trump walked.

That’s not an even exchange.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

That’s not an even exchange.

I agree but not in the way you think its uneven.

But I'm willing to compromise.

 

[nostradumbass]

Pointing out that BLM activists tipped the election to Biden is identity politics? lol.

Identity politics "tipping the scale" is identity politics? Derp.

 

[Fugazy]

Yeah. If anything, as leftists we should be arming ourselves and preparing to even up the firepower and tactical advantage that the right has...

Lol, why?

 

[Fugazy]

I agree but not in the way you think its uneven.

But I'm willing to compromise.

So am I.

Here we are.

 

[moosaev]

Identity politics "tipping the scale" is identity politics? Derp.

You’re truly a dipshit if you think anything I’ve said is identity politics. Not throwing a core constituency under the bus isn’t identity politics, it’s called having common sense and political instincts. Identity politics is “vote for person X or Y because they’re white or black, or because they will only serve whites or blacks”. The GOP does that (see Southern strategy).

 

[James Bomb]

I'm a leftist and you have to be pretty fucking stupid to say "a figment of the right's imagination"

Not a figment of the imagination, but more of a hyped-up straw man creation for political theater. They were never such a dire threat when they were known as gutter punks.

The sky certainly wasn't falling every May 1st or every single time there was a G7 summit, even though windows got broken and shops and cars still burned.

Remember the migrant caravan? Political theater too. I guess all the rapists and murderers crumbled away once Lord Trump defeated the Night King.

 

[James Bomb]

You’re truly a dipshit if you think anything I’ve said is identity politics. Not throwing a core constituency under the bus isn’t identity politics, it’s called having common sense and political instincts. Identity politics is “vote for person X or Y because they’re white or black, or because they will only serve whites or blacks”. The GOP does that (see Southern strategy).

You're arguing with a forum idiot. He'll waste just enough of your time with his edgelord antics and then slink down to the basement to practice his nunchucks.

 

[IGIT]

But it’s not a wash, Biden flipped a red state, Georgia, and won back 3 Midwest states that voted Trump in 2016. How the hell is that a wash lol? Without BLM activists Biden loses the election, period.

hiya mooseav,

i'm not following things as closely as you are - i'm unclear that Biden's victory in Georgia (i don't think that state has actually been called yet ) is because of the black electorate.

All of the legislative races in which Democrats flipped seats came in Atlanta’s middle class and affluent northern suburbs: Alpharetta, Lawrenceville, Marietta, Sandy Springs, and Snellville.
https://theintercept.com/2020/11/05/georgia-election-results-biden-senate/

also, didn't the Democrats lose seats in the House?

look, i'm okie dokie with BLM. i support their raison d'etre, without reservation.

i just don't think they had alot to do with Mr. Biden winning the Presidency (assuming he wins it). if you disagree, that's alright.

- IGIT

 

[Gutter Chris]

‘hey there Gutter Chris,

I thought that the point of the thread was to figure out what Democrats could concede to the Republicans in Congress, to get legislation moving.

If the real focus of this thread is to figure out how Democrats should appeal to Republican voters, I think the Democrats have already done it. I mean, they nominated Joe Biden for the presidency. To me, that is scooting way to the right if you consider that the alternative was Bernie Sanders.

- IGIT

I mean it the same

Well give you the stupid wall and promise to strengthen the second amendment

You give us higher taxes on the wealthy to fund the country and Healthcare

 

[Gregolian]

They should give up the guns thing the same way Republicans should give up the abortion/climate change issues. It's just toxic for their party of choice.

You know how many folks are gun owners but fall more left socially but don't vote Dem because of fuck cucks like Beto?

 

[Falsedawn]

I do have to question the lefty credentials of all those saying guns. There is so much room for improvement on American gun control its hard to imagine it goes untouched.

For example a registry, the only real opposition is the thin edge idea of it leading to confiscation.



But I suppose its a tough question as the election was soon extremely light on policy.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm

To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party, whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the very first hour of victory, the workers must be armed and organized. The whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old-style citizens’ militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed. Where the formation of this militia cannot be prevented, the workers must try to organize themselves independently as a proletarian guard, with elected leaders and with their own elected general staff; they must try to place themselves not under the orders of the state authority but of the revolutionary local councils set up by the workers. Where the workers are employed by the state, they must arm and organize themselves into special corps with elected leaders, or as a part of the proletarian guard. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary. The destruction of the bourgeois democrats’ influence over the workers, and the enforcement of conditions which will compromise the rule of bourgeois democracy, which is for the moment inevitable, and make it as difficult as possible – these are the main points which the proletariat and therefore the League must keep in mind during and after the approaching uprising.

Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels
"Address of the Central Committee to the Communist League", March 1850

 

[AndroidRage]

With how divided our country is, it's pretty clear that the left won't get everything we want, practically speaking if you have to abandon any single issue to peel off more voters to gain the edge, what would you sacrifice?

Personally, I think we need to ditch gun control as an issue. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. Focus on healthcare and financially shoring up the poor/middle class, and reforming the justice system and policing. The 2nd amendment is there to stay, all we're doing with anti-gun rants is pissing a lot of people off, there is no viable path to materially change this.

Actual lefties won't really be getting shit. We won't get tuition free college or college debt forgiveness, won't get medicare for all or any real universal system, doubt we get anything that is even a shell of the green new deal. We will make small incremental change in those areas hopefully though. Which is way more than Trump would ever do.

 

[muvand103]

i would give my left nut to see donald trump have a shred of human decency and concede

You don't have any nuts

 

[James Bomb]

You don't have any nuts

Available evidence seems to suggest he has at least a left nut

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Lol, why?

Because you never know...

And it's good to be prepared anyway.

 

[giusti825]

exactly, i never voted for Trump but way too much of a hissy fit was thrown over the wall. we already have a damn wall, it was just being expanded. might even be more effective to add more border guards and some drones to patrol? i don't know the best way

The perspective might seem different to a person dying of dehydration on the opposite side of the wall as well as the children that might be with them.

Its a cruel concept and unnecessary, immigration from the southern border has decreased since 2008 and the wall itself has become a dog-whistle for anti-Mexican rhetoric. Mexicans dont sit in board rooms deciding how much an american worker gets paid. Automation, declining union membership and outsourcing have done 50 times the damage to the American wage than Mexicans immigration ever has.

I'm a lefty that believes in the 2nd Amendment, however, so id probably choose gun control as the give-away concession.

Medicare for all, green new deal (done intelligently, more nuclear than 'biofuel'), student loan forgiveness, free public tuition, marijuana legalization and reinvesting overblown police budgets into social programs would be off the table/non-negotiable.

 

[nostradumbass]

You’re truly a dipshit if you think anything I’ve said is identity politics. Not throwing a core constituency under the bus isn’t identity politics, it’s called having common sense and political instincts. Identity politics is “vote for person X or Y because they’re white or black, or because they will only serve whites or blacks”. The GOP does that (see Southern strategy).

If their "core constituency" is a racial supremacy group with their racial message right in the goddamn name, that is what English speakers call identity politics, you unstoppable retard. Trying to play whataboutism with some asinine garbage about the "southern strategy" 60 years ago is just retarded. Congress in the south didn't go republican until 1994, only 1 out of 20 dixiecrat senators became republicans, republicans did not win Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas Louisiana or Mississippi in 1968, Joe Biden flat out said this fucking year that he was basing on his VP pick entirely on race and sex.

But again, by all means, keep it up. Voting democrat for 80 years has worked wonders for every black neighborhood in the country. Keep voting the same way and it's bound to pay off eventually. Brilliant.