For everyone who was talking about how Shields dominated Maia in the grappling

[Jopo]

If Demian Maia and Jake Shields aren't world beaters on the ground, no one is. They're easily in the top 1% most accomplished grapplers in MMA history.

Oh.. who have they submitted? who have they pounded out from good position? (i mean in terms of good competition......)

top 1% grapplers in mma history lmfao.. ridiculolus.. Maia hasn't done shit in this sport yet besides beat fitch. and shields is a lay and prayer with very mixed results.

hell, palhares is technically a more accomplished grappler then maia thus far in mma.

 

[georgwilhelm**]

You reward him according to the amount of time he was able to hold that position. If he gives up position quickly, then I can see how the guy who got the reversal might be benefitted. But he didn't, Maia was able to hold position for as long as Jake and a more dominant position at that.

Also, Maia actually did damage from top and Shields did none, neither in the first nor second. Call me crazy but in the Rory-Condit fight where Condit did damage from bottom and Rory did nothing from top I'd hand it to Condit. Even more so, when both players sepend equal time on top and one is doiing damage and the other not (and the first one got takedowns and better positions).

 

[99escobar]

Maia hasn't done shit in this sport yet besides beat fitch.

He beat Middleweight and Light Heavyweight title contender Chael Sonnen in one of the most beautiful grappling moves I've ever seen in MMA in 2 minutes.

He also fought the disputed GOAT to a credible points loss.

 

[markg171]

You do realise that in MMA scoring, being in full guard is considered neutral, so Shields 'maintaining' that position should be scored precisely nine-tenths of zero. Not only that, but if he maintains his position for almost exactly the same period of time, but the round ends, he still hasn't done any kore that Maia over the 5 minute timespan.


Just because judges don't know or consistently fail to apply the correct rules doesn't mean that the way they score is correct (not that they are remotely consistent in any case), it means they aren't very good judges. I'm not super-salty with the result, because IMO it was the closest thing to a draw I've seen. Mostly I'm pissed that the match happened at all, because now we have Shields feeling like he is a winner when he shouldn't, and where we had a contender in Maia we now have none.

Make no mistake, Shields isn't getting back in the title picture any time soon.

Guard isn't a neutral position in MMA. That should absolutely not be in question anymore. It might be in grappling, but it's not in MMA. Two different sports, two different reward systems so don't apply a different scoring system to a different game

Also, why are you mad that Maia is no longer a contender? If anything, Shields exposed how overhyped he was and undeserving of contender status he was. If Shields is nowhere near contention, then Maia is even further away. I mean GSP would absolutely dominate the crap out of him, that shouldn't be in any doubt now, so who cares that he's now nowhere near a title shot? It'd be a waste of a fight if Maia couldn't even accomplish anything against Shields guard and top game, let alone to mention GSP's far superior striking

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

Shields reversed Maia.

Maia said he normally would have submitted his opponent when he had his back, but Shields ended up gaining position.

 

[5H3RD0G]

Shields had more control and did more while in control. It was a great fight in terms of how Shields countered and Maia exchanged takedowns. I think the next BJJ star is Yan Cabral that kid had ninjitsu more acrobatic and fluid style of grappling. I think Shields and Maia are more heavy set and styled grounded type guys. The high flying BJJ guys are coming. :icon_chee

 

[welcometohavoc]

Without peer review and accountability, judges can literally just play games on their phones during the fight and pencil in a decision when its over.

 

[MDoza]

Great post, great articles. Highlights:

It was not a blow out for Maia by any means, but pretty clearly in his favor the majority of that fight. The best way I can express my frustration is to say these two men engaged in an excellent and well contested game of chess, and then it became clear the judges thought they were watching checkers.

there is the issue of how to account for failed takedowns. Does that fall into the category of "defense" which must then lead to offense for it to be valued, or is controlling the fight and count for something itself. It is listed in the official scoring criteria in both categories and from my point of view, both takedown offense and defense should be valued. One fighter is trying to get the fight to the round, while the other is trying to keep it standing, and whoever wins that exchange should be credited.

In three cases Maia took Shields down, and then was able to do directly to Shields back twice. And yet many scored one or both those rounds against Maia, while the single round in which Shields got a takedown but then was unable to advance position was by far the most decisive round on everyone's score cards.

 

[Bubblun]

sounds like a completely fair assessment to me. Sorry but both Shields and Maia are going no where. They can't strike and they aren't exactly world beaters on the ground.

Oh.. who have they submitted? who have they pounded out from good position? (i mean in terms of good competition......)

top 1% grapplers in mma history lmfao.. ridiculolus.. Maia hasn't done shit in this sport yet besides beat fitch. and shields is a lay and prayer with very mixed results.

hell, palhares is technically a more accomplished grappler then maia thus far in mma.

you have joined in 2001 and write this crap?

it isn't easy to submit fighters that know how to defend on the ground and in today mma everybody has good posture and defense.
that mean it a lot more frequent seeing sumbissions during transitions and scrambles, like the Cedenblad guillotine, Erick Silva triangle armbar on Jason High, that type of submission, because it's unexpected.
if a fighter will face a grappler like Maia or Shields he will drill back escaping and rear naked choke defense for months.
Fitch defended Maia chokes for 3 rounds, because he was well prepared for it, Burkman choked him uncoscious in the first sumbission attempt because that was unexpected.
but only a fool believe that Burkman is better than Maia on the ground.

Palhares is a freak, his body type and skillset are unique.
he don't need to take down the opponent to go for the submission, he just roll under him and isolate his leg.
he was running through everyone during ADCC, even professional full time grapplers like Lovato, and almost had Galvao.
that win even now makes Galvao proud, because Palhares is freaking dangerous.

The Judges were american, and imo some of the most corrupt judges in all of MMA.

But heres the facts:

Richard Bertrand: R1, R2, R5 for Shields, R3, R4 for Maia (48-47 Shields)
Sal D'Amato: R2, R3, R5 for Shields, R1, R4 for Maia (48-47 Shields)
Guilherme Bravo: R1, R4, R5 for Maia, R2, R3 for Shields (48-47 Maia)

The one that gets me is Bertrands score, how did he give Shields R1? I though shields won via 2,3 and 5 (five being a very close round). I felt going into the 5th round that it was 2-2.

that scorecard is very eloquent.
fights like this should be a draw.

 

[illegalnature]

Shields is awesome. Dude goes out and dominates Maia. Already put Hendo down alot easier than Shogun and Rashad and Machida like literally made it look super easy and I mean the list goes on and on beat Condit who everyone is always dick riding, No wonder everyone hates Shields....He keeps shitting on all their favorite fighters