For everyone who was talking about how Shields dominated Maia in the grappling

[MJ1432]

Please read these two articles by TP Grant, or at least the first. They're really great articles, they say much more concisely and elegantly everything that I, along with a few other guys, were trying to say on here last night. To be clear, I'm not calling the fight a robbery, I'm not even really hating on the judges (it was a close fight). But I do think that anyone who thought Shields dominated (goddam Jon Anik strongly included) should read these. Sorry if this was already posted, feel free to delete if so.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/10/...-maia-vs-shields-results-thursday-perspective

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/10/...esults-jake-shields-and-demian-maia-highlight

 

[Mae]

"Both fighters suffered from this fight, Shields barely earned a decision and in a way that doesn't convince me he can compete at the upper levels of this division. And for Maia, if he wants to be a contender in this weight class he can't be giving away rounds to a fighter like Shields."

Sounds like someone with a grudge against Shields to me.

 

[MJ1432]

Also just to pre-empt this whole conversation, I'm really not hung up on the outcome of the fight, I really don't care all that much, I'm not a bit Maia guy or anything. What I am hung up on, and actively frustrated by, is the generally really low level of discourse surrounding grappling in even relatively serious MMA circles.

 

[MJ1432]

"Both fighters suffered from this fight, Shields barely earned a decision and in a way that doesn't convince me he can compete at the upper levels of this division. And for Maia, if he wants to be a contender in this weight class he can't be giving away rounds to a fighter like Shields."

Sounds like someone with a grudge against Shields to me.

It's possible, I've never gotten that vibe from him before though, in fact I think he's generally a Shields fan, he seems more frustrated by the fight and conversation surrounding it than anything else to me.

 

[RenoBJJr]

Do you even lift bro?

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

"Both fighters suffered from this fight, Shields barely earned a decision and in a way that doesn't convince me he can compete at the upper levels of this division. And for Maia, if he wants to be a contender in this weight class he can't be giving away rounds to a fighter like Shields."

Sounds like someone with a grudge against Shields to me.

Sounds like it to me too, it's not like Shields is a scrub or something, hes top 10 and has been for years and is likely the best positional grappler at WW especially on top.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Shields is probably the most underrated fighter in the UFC. He has outgrappled a BJJ world champion and an olympic wrestler in his career. With that said, for fighting for so long, you would think he would be better at striking.

 

[countswagula]

I agree, horrible judging. I simply can't understand any criteria that awards the first round for Shields for getting a simple reversal after Maia had already taken him down, passed him and mounted his back.

 

[itheuser]

Shields neither out-grappled, or dominated Maia.

Anyone who couches the discussion in those terms doesn't understand what they're watching, and is probably in it for whatever shit talk they can apply to a losing fighter's fans on forums.

Grappling discussions in general are not well debated on MMA forums. Only a minority care, or understand what they're watching, and this match was a perfect example.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Well he certainly won the grappling. He took Demian down, punched, elbowed, and stayed on top. Demian didn't. Shields wins by default.

 

[countswagula]

Well he certainly won the grappling. He took Demian down, punched, elbowed, and stayed on top. Demian didn't. Shields wins by default.

Both guys got about equal amount of time on tp of each other. The only round where Jake clearly won the grapping exchange was 2.

 

[markg171]

I agree, horrible judging. I simply can't understand any criteria that awards the first round for Shields for getting a simple reversal after Maia had already taken him down, passed him and mounted his back.

Because Maia did nothing with his take downs. That reversal nullified Maia taking his back, and Shields spent over 2 minutes on top of Maia GNP'ing him?

I was on the fence about awarding Shields the first round and I still think it's 50/50 for who grabs it, but how can you not see how Shields gets it?

I love how when it's a BJJ guy who gets take downs that lead nowhere or to them getting reversed, they should be awarded, but when it's a wrestler who does it to a BJJ guy it should mean nothing. I absolutely love the double standards around here

 

[AllHailKrull**]

Shields won via being on top and elbows to the face.

 

[markg171]

Shields neither out-grappled, or dominated Maia.

Anyone who couches the discussion in those terms doesn't understand what they're watching, and is probably in it for whatever shit talk they can apply to a losing fighter's fans on forums.

Grappling discussions in general are not well debated on MMA forums. Only a minority care, or understand what they're watching, and this match was a perfect example.

Seems like those people are all the same ones that don't understand that grappling is not the same as MMA grappling.

I'm not one of those who say Shields dominated Maia in the grappling, but he clearly beat him in the MMA grappling

 

[MJ1432]

Seems like those people are all the same ones that don't understand that grappling is not the same as MMA grappling.

I'm not one of those who say Shields dominated Maia in the grappling, but he clearly beat him in the MMA grappling

If you consider MMA grappling to be about surviving in an excellent guard and landing a number of short, soft elbows, intended only to cut, and failing to do that, then I guess he did. If you consider MMA grappling to be about getting takedowns, landing real punches, and achieving dominant positions, then Maia did. It's really that simple. And that's the whole point of those articles, which you may have read, but clearly a number of people on here chose not to, even though that's the whole point of the thread.

 

[countswagula]

Because Maia did nothing with his take downs. That reversal nullified Maia taking his back, and Shields spent over 2 minutes on top of Maia GNP'ing him?

I was on the fence about awarding Shields the first round and I still think it's 50/50 for who grabs it, but how can you not see how Shields gets it?

I love how when it's a BJJ guy who gets take downs that lead nowhere or to them getting reversed, they should be awarded, but when it's a wrestler who does it to a BJJ guy it should mean nothing. I absolutely love the double standards around here

What did Shields do with his takedowns? Zero sub attempts and he only landed one solid strike from Maia's guard, a short elbow, and that was in the second. And how the hell does reversing and going into Maia's guard nullify the fact he took his back? By that logic every single round is just awarded for the person who ends up on top, and everything else is ignored. If that is the criteria, there isn't even any reason for judges to exist.

 

[countswagula]

Seems like those people are all the same ones that don't understand that grappling is not the same as MMA grappling.

I'm not one of those who say Shields dominated Maia in the grappling, but he clearly beat him in the MMA grappling

How did he beat him in MMA grappling? Maia secured the most takedowns and got far better positions. Is being in a guy's guard better than mounting his back in MMA?

 

[europe1]

Every victory seems to be labeled a "domination" these days. The words has lost all meaning.

 

[markg171]

What did Shields do with his takedowns? Zero sub attempts and he only landed one solid strike from Maia's guard, a short elbow, and that was in the second. And how the hell does reversing and going into Maia's guard nullify the fact he took his back? By that logic every single round is just awarded for the person who ends up on top, and everything else is ignored. If that is the criteria, there isn't even any reason for judges to exist.

If you end up on top because you reversed your opponents position, yeah you get rewarded over what they did.

 

[markg171]

How did he beat him in MMA grappling? Maia secured the most takedowns and got far better positions. Is being in a guy's guard better than mounting his back in MMA?

When you reversed their position to get yours, yes it's more important