Foot/leg locks v. Arm locks/chokes

[xpo266]

I've been training BJJ for about a month. I am one of the smaller BJJ players at my gym and I asked my instructor if it would be beneficial for me to learn foot/leg locks because of my inability to pass the guards of my larger opponents.

He said it would be okay to learn them, but foot/leg locks were sort of 'cheating moves'. In essence, the player who attempts foot locks and leg locks from the guard is incapable of performing the 'manly' more challenging moves from more advantageous positions.

He clearly stated that though effective, he would rather see me perform maneuvers other than foot and leg locks.

Can the more experienced BJJ players shed some light on this conception of leg/foot locks as lesser moves?

 

[Zankou]

They are not "lesser" moves in any sense.

However they are no substitute for passing the guard, and it can be an irresistable temptation to just fall back and do leglocks rather than the very hard work of becoming proficient at guard passing. This is particularly true at the white/blue belt level, where it is generally very easy to tap people all day with leglocks.

In fact guard passing goes hand and hand with leglocks. A strong guard passing game sets up leglocks beautifully, and a strong leglock game makes it much easier to pass guard.

In general, listen to your instructor.

 

[Zacklol]

Calling leg-locks cheating is just ridiculous, considering you should know how to avoid, counter, and escape them. A lot of people enter tournaments and fear the leg-lock guys. You shouldn't learn leg-locks because you can't pass guard, learn them because there will be situations where you don't think you NEED to pass guard.

edit: Just don't rely on your leg-locks when you can't pass the guard. Master opening their guards and passing. Small guys can do it too.

 

[xpo266]

Calling leg-locks cheating is just ridiculous, considering you should know how to avoid, counter, and escape them. A lot of people enter tournaments and fear the leg-lock guys. You shouldn't learn leg-locks because you can't pass guard, learn them because there will be situations where you don't think you NEED to pass guard.

edit: Just don't rely on your leg-locks when you can't pass the guard. Master opening their guards and passing. Small guys can do it too.

I didn't mean leg lock were 'cheating moves' as in illegal in any sense. I meant cheating as in cheating yourself from passing his guard. I am well aware that leg locks are legal in competition.

The last part of your post doesn't make sense to me. When would I "[not] think that I NEED to pass the guard?"

If I didn't have to pass my opponents guard, why compete in BJJ? The guard game is the essence of BJJ. You always need to pass.


EDIT: there is a CONCEPTION that they are lesser moves. I understand they are equally as effective. Is there a stigma against players who rely on leglocks and don't pass their opponents guard? Are they considered to be "less manly" or capable?

 

[Zankou]

EDIT: there is a CONCEPTION that they are lesser moves. I understand they are equally as effective. Is there a stigma against players who rely on leglocks and don't pass their opponents guard? Are they considered to be "less manly" or capable?

No, because if you don't have good guard passing your leglocks are going to be weak anyways. The guys who rely on leglocks almost invariably set them up in conjunction with a good guard pass game.

You can't just fall back for leglocks and expect to have success. Anybody purple belt and above is too good at leglock defense for that to work, and you compromise your position without benefit. Like *any* sub, you have to set leglocks up with pressure for it to be successful. So the phenomenon of the horrible guard passer who keeps tapping people with leglocks is far more of a white/blue belt situation.

 

[Aesopian]

Leglocks can be technical, if they're cheap they should be able to defend them, they play a role in passing, blah blah blah, the usual lip service.

You've only been training for a month. Now is not the time to decide to give up on guard passing for an "easier" thing. You've got more important things to learn as a beginner. Base, posture, opening guard, passing. These take a while to develop. By "a while" I mean it could take up to a year or two.

Your reason for wanting to learn leglocks also tells me it's a bad idea. Using them as a last resort because you can't pass guard is rarely a good idea. It can work and sometimes it's a good strategy, especially when used in combination with passes (rather than "instead of" passes). But it won't be until you have more experience and skill in passing guard.

I was talking to a training partner about leglocks and beginners the other day. On an objective level, they're just techniques like any other. But something else happens when you teach them to beginners. They go all "WHOA KOOL DUDE" and start going nuts and trying them at all the wrong times.

To beginners, somehow failing a guard pass and getting swept is enough of a reason to not like guard passing, but falling to a sloppy leglock and being mounted doesn't seem so bad. It's like they don't mentally connect the leglock attempt and now being in a bad spot.

I could go on but I'm heading back to my half guard thread now. Listen to Zankou in my stead.

 

[Gavin LeFever]

I've been training BJJ for about a month. I am one of the smaller BJJ players at my gym and I asked my instructor if it would be beneficial for me to learn foot/leg locks because of my inability to pass the guards of my larger opponents.

He said it would be okay to learn them, but foot/leg locks were sort of 'cheating moves'. In essence, the player who attempts foot locks and leg locks from the guard is incapable of performing the 'manly' more challenging moves from more advantageous positions.

He clearly stated that though effective, he would rather see me perform maneuvers other than foot and leg locks.

Can the more experienced BJJ players shed some light on this conception of leg/foot locks as lesser moves?

He's saying he doesn't want leg locks to be a crutch for you to fall on. If you never learn to pass and always try leg locks, you'll have shitty passes and that will cripple your game, leglocks or not.

 

[devante]

YEAH-he is right to an extent round your game out so that you don't fall back on this one tech; it will stunt ur game and constantly put u in bad positions; regardless of the tech guard, leg/foot/anklelocks, armbars, chokes, if u dep on anything to much and sacrifice other aspects of ur game you will pay a price in your dev as a grappler/fighter.

u can't depend on any onething, not when ur not developing other elements; even the stuff your good at will lose effectiveness

 

[Agent Zero]

You are still a beginner, concentrate on learning the basics and develop good fundamentals. Once you have that down then your game will expand naturally and will include leglocks and higher level moves. Listen to your instructor.

 

[hayliks]

many beginners once they learn a footlock just plain stop trying to pass and then wonder what they can do to improve their footlock instead of learning how to pass. while it is a very effective technique, especially when done correctly, footlocks should be no substitution for guardpassing.

 

[wOg]

The biggest problem with leg/foot locks seems to be that people--and not just beginners--start to fall in love with them.

For me, personally, I put them in the category along with flying attacks: they work and are more practical than they may seem at first, but at the end of the day, I'd never want to be known as a leg/foot lock specialist ...

 

[CrazyCossack]

No leg locks for white belts because of the danger to other peoples legs when they just latch on and start spinning/cranking, and second of all because it stops them from having to pass gaurd.

If you never teach it to them they have to learn to pass gaurd.

Dont teach it to them and dont allow them to do it while they roll...

At blue belt they can start because they should know they have to pass gaurd.