Florida armed bystander stops gunman at crowded back-to-school event at park

[HomerThompson]

Amen.

America could one day be within reach of a Utopian society if we can make our poorest citizens healthy and productive, with the opportunity for an education. America is great and it's gonna get greater.
I predict good things for these issues, at a somewhat painful societal price.

I think we will outgrow guns. It absolutely requires broad social priority changes.

An exchange-a-gun- for- healthcare program?
"I need a root canal. I can use that more than this .22."

We could really be Star Trek...

 

[HomerThompson]

To be fair, HT and RP are acting 100% as gun grabbers in this thread, openly calling for just to wave a magic wand and have all the guns in the US gone and we won't have any problems

They're even using this case of a guy who thankfully had his legal to have on his person at all time gun with and the mindset and ability to use it effectively to spread their word vomit about how all guns are bad and if no guns then no problems

Perhaps you could point out where I said anything remotely like that? Thanks.

 

[abiG]

Exactly, this is why European countries have the same amount of gun violence/rate as the USA does.

Europe has plenty of murders and the gang population in the US dwarfs that of Europe. We have 100s of thousands of kids here with ongoing beefs that began before they were born. Almost all of our black ops are financed with black drug money and that can never stop. These kids will continue to run around with guns regardless of legislation.

Let's think beyond a band-aid, if just this once.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

To be fair, HT and RP are acting 100% as gun grabbers in this thread, openly calling for just to wave a magic wand and have all the guns in the US gone and we won't have any problems

They're even using this case of a guy who thankfully had his legal to have on his person at all time gun with and the mindset and ability to use it effectively to spread their word vomit about how all guns are bad and if no guns then no problems

I can understand their POV and agree with some but not all of those arguments.
It's more complicated than *"poof, the guns are gone forever"*.
Example, Ireland. It's not absurd to figure there are caches of guns all over that island. That's an assumption though.
It would be almost certain to happen in the US. Guns will always be here until there's a major shift in society.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Those stats would be interesting to see . . .

Found a Forbes link talking about the CDC study into defensive vs criminal gun usage as that talks about some of the issues people have with the studies' findings rather than just a Fox or Breitpart piece that uses it propaganda (issues like defensive gun usage can be counted as drawing a weapon to stop a threat, whereas violent firearm crimes requires actually firing the weapon, and self reporting error)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/

But... the reality is... "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008."

"In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to six states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Estimates based on CDC’s surveys confirm estimates for the same sets of states based on data from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995). Extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole CDC’s survey data imply that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results."

Don't know what the rate of "Humiliated Pussies" shooting a place up are, but since it by definition can't be larger that the total of violent crimes committed with a firearm, I'd say @Tropodan wins that bet via unanimous decision

 

[RetiredSlave]

This illustrates what all to often is forgotten in this discussion. The bad guy will still have guns. It is the law abiding citizen that could have stopped him who will be disarmed.

Gun control would never work for the same reason that making drugs illegal will never work.

Thank you for thinking things through. A peaceful gunless US society would be marvelous but that just isnt the case. America simply has to work within the framework that hundreds of millions of guns and trillions of rounds of ammunition already exist. It is what it is as they say. Thanks again for being a voice of reason.

Another somehwat hidden benefit of that is you guys arent getting successfully invaded or internally couped anytime soon.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

You never heard of going postal?

Exponentially though?

 

[Rational Poster]

Exponentially though?

Depends where you set the bar for humiliated pussy.

I'd imagine most gang shootings involve at least one humiliated pussy, so I think the numbers favor my assumption.

Workplace shooting. Humiliated pussies.

Bar brawls gone wrong? Definitely a humiliated pussy involved.

Even love triangle murders involve at least one humiliated pussy.

 

[lifelessheap]

I support the 2nd but not every jackass who wants one deserves the privilege. The law restricts who can own them and will expand on them, I'm sure.

What I hate is the whole "Gun grabbers!" fear tactic.

I'm in California. Gun grabbers just nibble away over and over.

 

[Higus]

Chicago just had what? 60 shot in 48 hours? Strict gun laws are there. London has some of the most strict in the world and what happens? Knife crime with crime rates of murder higher than NYC. Take away the "good guy with a gun" and you're left with "bad guys with illegal guns". Guns are not the problem, people are. I don't think I've ever heard a legitimate solution on that. We live in America where over 300 million guns are in circulation. Bad gun man is here to stay.

Luckily there was a quick thinking citizen there to subdue this threat and advert disaster. He is a good symbol of responsible gun carry and we should hope it remains that way.

Chicago (or most US cities) are bad example for many reasons, but the primary one is that most of the guns used in crimes do not actually come from Chicago, but a different county or state all together. There's a reasonable argument that it's not that Chicago has ineffective laws, but rather that the areas around it have lax laws and Chicago is worse off for it. Think of a place like Hawaii: strict laws and geographical isolation combine to have the lowest rates of gun violence in the country (not for long if @alanb has anything to say about it). Even California, with its troubled urban areas has relatively low gun violence per capita. This is mostly due to tough laws statewide and that the city centers are isolated from other states with lax laws.
Re: "guns aren't the problem, people are" - no shit. The problem is the bad guys have access to guns. The goal should be 2 pronged: do something about the bad guys AND do something to prevent them from getting guns. This isn't rocket science. Ask yourself this: would London today as a whole be better off with more handguns in circulation? What about in 5-10 years after the refugees have initially moved in?

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Think of a place like Hawaii: strict laws and geographical isolation combine to have the lowest rates of gun violence in the country

Here on Big Island gun ownership seems fairly common. Lack of people getting shot is not due to lack of opportunity. Which "strict law" do you find particularly effective?

 

[Higus]

Here on Big Island gun ownership seems fairly common. Lack of people getting shot is not due to lack of opportunity. Which "strict law" do you find particularly effective?

pistol magazine caps, "may issue" cc licences, waiting periods before and between purchases, required registrations, required training, no "Stand Your Ground", etc. It's one of the most restrictive states.

EDIT: it's not one particular law, but a combination of laws (as well as geography) that make a higher barrier to entry for ownership.

 

[oldshadow]

Disagree.

You only live once. We don't need tens of millions of murder tools laying around for all these emotionally weak man children to grab whenever their feelings get hurt.

Then we can go after the knifes like the UK.

 

[mb23100]

Loses fight

Shoots at 100 people and misses

Gets shot

 

[Rational Poster]

Then we can go after the knifes like the UK.

Or not.

 

[HomeRun916]

You never heard of going postal?

Lol...

I couldn’t keep a straight face either reading that.

 

[oldshadow]

Chicago (or most US cities) are bad example for many reasons, but the primary one is that most of the guns used in crimes do not actually come from Chicago, but a different county or state all together. There's a reasonable argument that it's not that Chicago has ineffective laws, but rather that the areas around it have lax laws and Chicago is worse off for it. Think of a place like Hawaii: strict laws and geographical isolation combine to have the lowest rates of gun violence in the country (not for long if @alanb has anything to say about it). Even California, with its troubled urban areas has relatively low gun violence per capita. This is mostly due to tough laws statewide and that the city centers are isolated from other states with lax laws.
Re: "guns aren't the problem, people are" - no shit. The problem is the bad guys have access to guns. The goal should be 2 pronged: do something about the bad guys AND do something to prevent them from getting guns. This isn't rocket science. Ask yourself this: would London today as a whole be better off with more handguns in circulation? What about in 5-10 years after the refugees have initially moved in?

How about we lockup criminals with guns for some real time.

 

[HomeRun916]

Loses fight

Shoots at 100 people and misses

Gets shot

He tore his ACL in the third, was a close decision.

 

[oldshadow]

Or not.

Why would you need to carry a knife or any thing that could be a weapon.

 

[Higus]

How about we lockup criminals with guns for some real time.

Do we not?
I'd rather prevent crime than punish it after the fact.