Flavored Whey + Waxy Maize

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by Quince, Jun 6, 2008.

  1. Quince White Belt

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    Does anyone have any experience with mixing flavored whey with Waxy Maize PWO? I can't order a custom blend from True Protein due to shipping costs, but ordering WMS in bulk and getting ON Whey seems like a cheap alternative. This idea makes sense to me, is there some flaw in my plan?
     
  2. Loomy Purple Belt

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    nope no flaw

    you can bet there isnt a noticeable performance advantage between waxy corn starch and normal corn starch either, so get any bulk shit
     
  3. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Not really any flaw.
     
  4. food70 White Belt

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    Should be fine. I have done it before with other brands of protein.
     
  5. Cap'n <img src="http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1955/

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    :rolleyes:
     
  6. WCLegend90 Orange Belt

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    Where is fatty?
     
  7. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Why? We have been over WMS numerous times.
     
  8. WCLegend90 Orange Belt

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    He asked for experience and fatty uses Wazy Maize PWO.
     
  9. JungleBush White Belt

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    The advantage of using waxy maise is the great molecular weight, helping it to be quickly pulled into your digestive track for immediate absorbtion. If you combine it with your whey, you are missing out on that bc weigh is a much lower mole weight. Thats how you dont bloat after you drink 80g of carbs from waxy maize. Drink your waxy immediately after workout, then your weigh about 20 or so mins later for best resulst.
     
  10. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Oh hell, really? It moves that quick? And that is needed why?
     
  11. JungleBush White Belt

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    Its not necissarily needed, just preferred by some. Me, I like an apple after my workout for carbs, but you will notice a real muscle fullness from waxy maise. If your muscles are depleted of glycogen and you take in that rapid absorption carb, you can super-saturate them.
     
  12. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Hahaha that last line is BS. Also what does muscle fullness have to do with anything?
     
  13. JungleBush White Belt

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    Last line is bs? You have no clue about nutrition. If somebody uses waxy maise, its not because it taste good, its because they want to rapidly replenish muscle glycogen aka carbohydrate stored in muscle cells, which is muscle's source of energy. If muscles are depleted of glycogen, your body will quickly want to replenish them, and since 1 molecule of glycogen carries 2 molecules of h2o, it gives your muscles a fuller look. Flat muscles = depleted muscles. If you aren't worried about depleted muscle glycogen, why would you even use waxy maise?
     
  14. Vedic Purple Belt

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    I have no clue about nutrition? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no one has made me laugh that hard on here.Rapid glycogen replinishment isn't neded. Glut4 response takes care of that (btw they teach that in the third nutrition class in college). Fuller means nothing when it comes to growth, never has never will. Flat muscles does not equal depleted muscles hahaha. They can be depleted and not look flat.

    You my friend are the one that needs to educate themselves on nutrition. Do you have a degree in that field?
     
  15. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Here we go.


    From another thread I already taught people about this in.

    People are always worried about speed of this and that. if you are eating correctly ALL day, then it really isn't needed period. Not to mention aminos and most other key nutrients are absorbed in the small intestine, not the stomach. Even in glycogen replinishment it does have a limit when large amounts are ingested.


    Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.

    Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.

    Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

    The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes. This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose. Following this rapid phase of glycogen synthesis, muscle glycogen synthesis occurs at a much slower rate and this phase can last for several hours. Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, it has been shown that muscle glycogen concentration is a potent regulator of glycogen synthase. Low muscle glycogen concentrations following exercise are associated with an increased rate of glucose transport and an increased capacity to convert glucose into glycogen.The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis. The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (&gt;/=1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (&lt;1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (&gt;1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise.

    You can't say WMS is superior by isolating its effects without taking into consideration real world variables such as glycogen levels before and during (which are not even close to be depleted) and the addition of a protein as well which will have more of an effect on recovery than ANY carbohydrate drink.

    The next question you need which basically eliminates the need to split hairs about molecular size is to ask what effect does increased glycogen resynthesis rates have on protein synthesis rates? Basically none.

    Amino acids are the main nutrient signals for protein synthesis, NOT insulin. And speed when it comes to amino acids is important. Guess what also triggers an insulin response and actually eliminates cortisol....amino acids. IF you are worried so much about preventing catabolism then increasing rates of protein synthesis should be your number one priority. Insulin is mainly anti-catabolic in small amounts. Amino acids exert anabolic activity.




    Also

    Carbohydrate nutrition before, during, and after exercise.

    Costill DL.

    The role of dietary carbohydrates (CHO) in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been clearly demonstrated. The mechanisms responsible for optimal glycogen storage are linked to the activation of glycogen synthetase by depletion of glycogen and the subsequent intake of CHO. Although diets rich in CHO may increase the muscle glycogen stores and enhance endurance exercise performance when consumed in the days before the activity, they also increase the rate of CHO oxidation and the use of muscle glycogen. When consumed in the last hour before exercise, the insulin stimulated-uptake of glucose from blood often results in hypoglycemia, greater dependence on muscle glycogen, and an earlier onset of exhaustion than when no CHO is fed. Ingesting CHO during exercise appears to be of minimal value to performance except in events lasting 2 h or longer. The form of CHO (i.e., glucose, fructose, sucrose) ingested may produce different blood glucose and insulin responses, but the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis is about the same regardless of the structure.



    and

    Amino acids regulate skeletal muscle PHAS-I and p70 S6-kinase phosphorylation independently of insulin. Long, W., L. Saffer, L. Wei, and E. J. Barrett. Department of Internal Medicine, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville, Virginia 22908
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    APStracts 7:0077E, 2000.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Refeeding reverses the muscle protein loss seen with fasting. The physiological regulators and cellular control sites responsible for this reversal are incompletely defined. Phosphorylation of phosphorylated heat-acid stabled protein (PHAS-I) frees eukaryotic initiation factor 4E (eIF4E) and stimulates protein synthesis by accelerating translation initiation. Phosphorylation of p70 S6-kinase (p70S6k) is thought to be involved in the regulation of the synthesis of some ribosomsal proteins and other selected proteins with polypyrimidine clusters near the transcription start site. We examined whether phosphorylation of PHAS-I and p70S6k was increased by feeding and determined the separate effects of insulin and amino acids on PHAS-I and p70S6k phosphorylation in rat skeletal muscle in vivo. Muscle was obtained from rats fed ad libitum or fasted overnight (n = 5 each). Other fasted rats were infused with insulin (3 muU
     
  16. B3rserk3R Brown Belt

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    Jungle messed with the Zohan...

    Thanks for posting Vedic. Very informative.
     
  17. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Haven't seen that movie yet, although I do plan on it sometime.
     
  18. StrikerStatus Green Belt

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    Vedic, what is your education?
     
  19. Vedic Purple Belt

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    Which subject? Nutrition is my minor and will soon be my masters(as i make the whoopty do circles) I have been training people since 1996 now, and educating myself since that time.
     
  20. StrikerStatus Green Belt

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    Just wondering what your degree(s) are/is in. Color me curious.
     

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