First Squat and Deadlift form check

[Roy]

Hey All,

I've been posting a log here for more than a year now (http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f49/roys-log-1036222/)

and this is my first form check video, please be gentle.

Background:
BW=139 lbs.
training about 4 years
following a program built around deadlift/squat/bench for about a year.
Self taught, never coached by anyone knowledgeable.

Squat:


That was the last set of a 3x5 work set.

Deadlift:


1x3x225 is a typical workset for me on deadlift,
1x1x275 is my current all time PR for DL

looking forward to the feedback.

 

[NinjaBlack]

I'm not a coach or even very knowledgeable but one thing I notice is on DL the bar doesn't travel up your leg. It appears it might not even be touching you on the way up. In most cases I'm pretty positive that the weight SHOULD be touching your shins. It also appears that you may not be leaning back enough because I notice that the weight comes off your heels on the last DL. To exagerate; its almost as if you were going to fall forward.
And your lower back appears to curve a bit, which might even be caused by the first things I said.

If someone more experienced says "Fuck what NinjaBlack said" then you are probably better off listening to them but I figured I'd chime in.

 

[YetiFeet]

I can see what NinjaBlack is saying; it kinda looks like the bar isn't close to your quads as you pass your knees. It's hard to tell for sure though because of the quality and angle of the video. It looks like you're locking out your legs too soon so you sort of stiff-legged deadlift the bar the rest of the way past your knees. This might explain why it looks like the bar is travelling away from your thighs.

I'm no expert though

 

[ronin0352]

Fuck what NinjaBlack said.


J/K

You squat doesn't look terrible, but you are breaking at the knees first rather than the hips...this is wrong. Think about sticking your butt out a little bit before you bend your knees, this will help put tension on the hamstrings from the start and bring your PC into the lift a little more effectively & also help stabilize your knee joint avoiding knee pain/possible injury. There might be a little tail-tucking going on too, but it's hard to tell with the hoodie on. If so, work on your hamstring flexibility some. You're doing a high bar squat, so the breaking of the hips won't be as pronounced as with a low bar squat but they should still break first, even if only by a fraction of a second.

On the DL, NinjaBlack is mostly right. You don't have to tear up your shins with the bar dragging up them, but it can happen. The bar should start closer and stay there. You can see, especially on the 2nd & 3rd reps, that the first movement of the bar when you start pulling is back toward you instead of up...this is wasted effort. The bar should travel straight up and down. The other problem with your DL is that your hips are rising too fast and then you're doing a stiff-legged DL from there. Your back angle (relative to the floor) should stay almost unchanged from the time the bar leaves the floor til your legs are straight, then drive your hips through to lock it out at the top. Your hips are rising, making your back angle more parallel to the floor, making the lift harder after your legs are straight.

Hope you find something useful in all that rambling.

 

[Roy]

I'm not a coach or even very knowledgeable but one thing I notice is on DL the bar doesn't travel up your leg. It appears it might not even be touching you on the way up. In most cases I'm pretty positive that the weight SHOULD be touching your shins. It also appears that you may not be leaning back enough because I notice that the weight comes off your heels on the last DL. To exagerate; its almost as if you were going to fall forward.

Yeah when i look at the video the bar is definitely too far in front of me, tho at the risk of sounding defensive, I think this is not a mistake I usually make, as I've got the scabs on my shins to prove it.

Definitely should lean back more, I could feel myself coming off my heels.

 

[Roy]

Fuck what NinjaBlack said.


J/K

You squat doesn't look terrible, but you are breaking at the knees first rather than the hips...this is wrong. Think about sticking your butt out a little bit before you bend your knees, this will help put tension on the hamstrings from the start and bring your PC into the lift a little more effectively & also help stabilize your knee joint avoiding knee pain/possible injury. There might be a little tail-tucking going on too, but it's hard to tell with the hoodie on. If so, work on your hamstring flexibility some. You're doing a high bar squat, so the breaking of the hips won't be as pronounced as with a low bar squat but they should still break first, even if only by a fraction of a second.

On the DL, NinjaBlack is mostly right. You don't have to tear up your shins with the bar dragging up them, but it can happen. The bar should start closer and stay there. You can see, especially on the 2nd & 3rd reps, that the first movement of the bar when you start pulling is back toward you instead of up...this is wasted effort. The bar should travel straight up and down. The other problem with your DL is that your hips are rising too fast and then you're doing a stiff-legged DL from there. Your back angle (relative to the floor) should stay almost unchanged from the time the bar leaves the floor til your legs are straight, then drive your hips through to lock it out at the top. Your hips are rising, making your back angle more parallel to the floor, making the lift harder after your legs are straight.

Hope you find something useful in all that rambling.

Yeah I shoulda mentioned its a highbar squat. I will try to work on breaking at the hips first rather than the knees.

With the deadlift what do you recommend to stop hips from rising too fast, I definitely noticed it got worse as the weight increased, it did not seem too egregious in the 1x3x225 set. What should I do to correct this?

I was disappointed with myself when I saw my lower back, up until now I thought I had been doing a better job of maintaining a neutral spine (it didn't feel like there was too much flexion before) but apparently the arch is pretty much non-existent on the 1RM, which scares me because that seems like it could induce an injury.

 

[Tosa]

In addition to what's already been said, you're not getting tight enough during your setup for either lift.

I'm just going to borrow an explanation from this article: Teaching the Squat By Jim Wendler For EliteFTS

 

[oasfc]

you are are not bending your knees enough when you lower the bar on your DL.

 

[Cratos]

Second, you're starting with your hips to low. They're rising before the bar breaks the ground, which means you lose any tightness you do develop before the lift even begins.

In his case, yes, he rises his hips too fast almost to the point of SLDLing it, but many people's hips will rise to some degree before the bar leaves the ground. This doesn't necessarily cause you to lose your tightness.

 

[dexbot]

Squat: Try to keep your weight more on your heels. That's harder to do doing highbar but definitely worth it in the long run because your knees stay healthy and you'll lift more weight.

watch blenderate

 

[Tosa]

In his case, yes, he rises his hips too fast almost to the point of SLDLing it, but many people's hips will rise to some degree before the bar leaves the ground. This doesn't necessarily cause you to lose your tightness.

If it's minor it's not as much of an issue, but it's not ideal, and it does mean the set-up is off, since if someone is in a good position to pull in the first place, their hips won't rise first.

 

[Cratos]

If it's minor it's not as much of an issue, but it's not ideal, and it does mean the set-up is off, since if someone is in a good position to pull in the first place, their hips won't rise first.

Though it may be slightly less efficient, I don't think it's an issue at all if that's the way you feel the most comfortable pulling. Do you want to tell KK his set up is off and he's not in a good position? His hips pop up before the bar leaves the ground.

 

[DevilMMA]

IMO

Squat - youre initiating with your knees, should be hips first

DL - upper body is too upright for my liking.

 

[Tosa]

Though it may be slightly less efficient, I don't think it's an issue at all if that's the way you feel the most comfortable pulling. Do you want to tell KK his set up is off and he's not in a good position? His hips pop up before the bar leaves the ground.

His hips rise before the bar breaks the ground because with that weight, and that bar, there's a lot of slack to pull out of the bar first. His back angle does not change when he does this, I.e. his rips aren't rising faster than his shoulders. So an exception could be added that hips can rise before the bar breaks the ground if there's a significant amount of slack to pull out of the bar, and angle of the back does not change when this is done, but this isn't usually an issue.

For that matter, it's not necessarily a good idea to take pointers on technique from videos of elite lifters (or elites in any sport) because they may not be applicable. Elite athletes may modify their technique to work around an injury or other issue, or may simply be using less than ideal technique. Furthermore, I wouldn't look to videos of lifts done in competition for guidance on technique.

 

[Cratos]

Within obvious limits, if your style doesn't hurt you and you're comfortable pulling in that manner, continue to do so. If you've been lifting for a year or more, this should apply to you.

You can certainly take pointers from the pros and use them to your advantage. Why the hell wouldn't you? Or I guess you could just watch another Mark Rippetoe video...

Look at the warm ups and first/second attempt.

Anyway, I won't post in this thread anymore. Winning an e-battle with the mighty Tosa is impossible.

 

[ronin0352]

DL - upper body is too upright for my liking.

How could upper body be too upright when his hips are rising too fast and putting the upper body more parallel to the floor?

His hips rise before the bar breaks the ground because with that weight, and that bar, there's a lot of slack to pull out of the bar first. His back angle does not change when he does this, I.e. his rips aren't rising faster than his shoulders. So an exception could be added that hips can rise before the bar breaks the ground if there's a significant amount of slack to pull out of the bar, and angle of the back does not change when this is done, but this isn't usually an issue.

That's why I prefer the cue I mentioned, that the back stay at the same angle relative to the floor.

For that matter, it's not necessarily a good idea to take pointers on technique from videos of elite lifters (or elites in any sport) because they may not be applicable. Elite athletes may modify their technique to work around an injury or other issue, or may simply be using less than ideal technique. Furthermore, I wouldn't look to videos of lifts done in competition for guidance on technique.

Agreed

 

[Tosa]

Within obvious limits, if your style doesn't hurt you and you're comfortable pulling in that manner, continue to do so. If you've been lifting for a year or more, this should apply to you.

It's not a big deal, but it is something that can be improved on, which leads to more weight being lifted.

You can certainly take pointers from the pros and use them to your advantage. Why the hell wouldn't you? Or I guess you could just watch another Mark Rippetoe video...

There's a difference between taking pointers, and assuming that the technique used by an elite athlete is good, or something that someone who's a beginner or intermediate should try and replicate. Instead, why not use videos or articles that are actually on the subject of technique to learn about technique. And get form checks here, another site (I've seen form checks in the Q&A of EliteFTS) and/or by someone knowledgable at your own gym.

Look at the warm ups and first/second attempt.

As I said before, he's pulling the slack out of the bar. His back angle does not change.

 

[DevilMMA]

How could upper body be too upright when his hips are rising too fast and putting the upper body more parallel to the floor?

IMO he needs to be over the bar more at the start, you can see its his shoulder and not his shoulder blade that is over the bar at the start.

My 2 cents.... thats all.

 

[PWR1982]

I don't know if it's just me, but it seems to me that on your squat the weight is too much on the inside of your feet, but again it's pretty hard to tell. I think it happens (or it happens to me) when you go very deep and use a too wide stance, so maybe make your stance a bit closer?

 

[Roy]

I don't know if it's just me, but it seems to me that on your squat the weight is too much on the inside of your feet, but again it's pretty hard to tell. I think it happens (or it happens to me) when you go very deep and use a too wide stance, so maybe make your stance a bit closer?

What do you mean by too much inside of foot? I can see how the weight can kinda be over the heel or ball but I don't see how the weight on the inside/outside would vary. Tho I do think I am squating quite deeply. I have for sometime felt my stance is overly wide (definitely wider than shoulders) but this is where I feel the strongest for some reason.