Firefighters as "Heroes"

[colby25]

Firefighters are very overpaid. But heading into a flaming building is hero shit.

I wouldn't say that. Yeah they probably have a lot of hours to sit around, but as my boss tells me..

"We earn our pay for that moment when the SHTF"

same could be applied to firefighters even more so. Running into a burning building and all the other stuff they endure... they earn their pay.

 

[Zankou]

I never put the occupation on a pedestal (too many self-aggrandizing jack handy jr types that are gooner drunk on their perceived importance ), but always look for what kind of person is underneath the uniform.

This is a world were you can meet a righteous crackhead and a dirty cop in the same day. People can transcend labels all the time.

The real heroes (to me) are those who plug away at their lives, their jobs, raise families without a spouse without going on welfare (sup mom?), those who overcome tragedy, addiction or abuse. People who teach and inspire without fanfare or having to make a reality show out of it.

I also personally believe that heroism is a situation, not a paid occupation. I'm always wary of those who proclaim themselves as such by virtue of their job.

Was going to post about how much I agree with this, and how this TRUE heroism is ignored, then saw it was your post ... as usual, kickass.

Kids always love the cartoonish concept of battling a CGI monster in an epic fight. In the real world, the people I admire most are those who, as you say, fight with immense perseverance to uphold decency and humanity against overwhelming obstacles -- not by defeating the great evil in a glorious blaze, but by just doing the hard work, making the commitment.

Glorifying histrionic drama does a disservice to (for example) a single mother struggling to do right by her disabled child, which in my mind is much more heroic than any firefighter you are ever likely to meet. Even when you talk about cops, for example, it often takes far more heroism for a cop to simply be decent, compassionate, and professional for years of devoted service, in what are often incredibly challenging circumstances, than to charge into a gunfight and start popping off shots.

 

[nhbbear]

The hate is this thread is at times, laughable, other times, it is sad. As a police officer, I am at times, jealous, of the love, or lack of hate, that firefighters get as compared to police officers. I know that the firefighters in my city do not fight many fires, but spend most of their days either at the station, or responding to medical emergencies. But when called upon to do great things, they do not hesitate.

In an ironic twist, our police department has saved more people from fires in the last dozen years than the firefighters, but that is a result of being more mobile and on scene first. In a recent incident, several officers got minor burns and smoke inhalation from trying to cut two people from a burning car. Unfortunately, both died, but those officers were incredibly brave and put themselves at substantial risk climbing into a burning vehicle, even making one last try to recover the driver, whom was already deceased, just so the family would have something to bury.

My point is, hate on firefighters and police for whatever reasons you want to manufacture, but when shit happens, they respond and rise to the occasion. I don't care what numbers you want to try and use to try and make their jobs less dangerous, the underlying danger and being one bad call away from serious peril is always there.

And I am not saying that regular people don't do those same heroic acts when the occasion presents itself, but these two professions are the only ones are compelled to respond and find themselves in danger's maw way more often than is reported or recognized. As an aside, I watched the videos of those officers trying to get the people out of that vehicle, and not one word was ever mentioned in the press-only that it was a fatal accident-then they moved on to another "scandal" story.

 

[Zankou]

It's not hate. As I say, my brothers are firemen, my dad was a fireman his whole career (retired now), and I seriously considered being a fireman.

It's just realism that when you decide to (say) become a fisherman to earn money for your family, you are taking on a much bigger risk than a guy who decides to become a fireman. And the internal motivations tend to be the same (my brothers will LOL mightily at the idea they chose their jobs for public service .... yes, they are dedicated, but of course they chose the jobs for MONEY and BENEFITS). People systematically overrate the risk posed by fires, and enormously underestimate the risk posed by accidents. For the same reason people are terrified by sharks and terrorism, it just looks incredibly scary and visceral, and this is what people think of as heroism, confronting scary things. Not confronting the actual statistical risks that flow from their life choices.

 

[skombolis]

Their deaths are caused by trying to save other lives. Thus the hero label. And I'm sure most could sit outside a building and watch it burn or go barely in and say they couldn't get further and nobody would know the difference and still collect their check. We have seen time and time again these guys go the extra mile doing whatever they can to save lives, even if it greatly increases the risk to their own.

I have yet to see any normal posts from this TS

 

[Zankou]

Their deaths are caused by trying to save other lives. Thus the hero label. And I'm sure most could sit outside a building and watch it burn and nobody would know the difference and still collect their check. We have seen time and time again these guys go the extra mile doing whatever they can to save lives, even if it greatly increases the risk to their own.

I have yet to see any normal posts from this TS

Again, this seems to be a misconception. Only a minority of firefighter deaths are caused by burns/fire/smoke. Most of them die from vehicle accidents, heart attacks, and overexertion. The huge killer is guys fighting forest fires who collapse ... they aren't saving lives, they are just out there grinding in the forest with shovels in high heat and heavy equipment, which is horribly dangerous (btw, those guys disparage urban firefighters as 'road queens'). Here's how firefighters are killed in actuality:

http://www.nfpa.org/research/report...efighter-deaths-by-cause-and-nature-of-injury

But for some reason nobody thinks it's heroic going to a fire when you could be killed by a vehicle accident .... at any moment! No, that's not heroism. Instead it's always imagined that they are running immense risks by going into burning buildings and saving lives, this is the heroism they are lauded for. But that disparages people who run significantly greater risks doing things that are just as important, socially, but aren't as 'sexy.' It's a cartoon version of heroism.

 

[skombolis]

I wouldn't say that. Yeah they probably have a lot of hours to sit around, but as my boss tells me..

"We earn our pay for that moment when the SHTF"

same could be applied to firefighters even more so. Running into a burning building and all the other stuff they endure... they earn their pay.

It is basically how insurance works. Obviously they aren't going to be battling infernos every day trying to pull babies from 3rd story buildings. But they have agreed to be a first responder and to do that when the need arises.

Tons of people die driving cars every day. There is a big difference between an accident and choosing beforehand to voluntarily run into a life-threatening situation. I agree, the money is for the promise to be there when needed, not necessarily every day-to-day activity. Most people wouldn't do it.

 

[skombolis]

Again, this seems to be a misconception. Only a minority of firefighter deaths are caused by burns/fire/smoke. Most of them die from vehicle accidents, heart attacks, and overexertion. The huge killer is guys fighting forest fires who collapse ... they aren't saving lives, they are just out there grinding in the forest with shovels in high heat and heavy equipment, which is horribly dangerous (btw, those guys disparage urban firefighters as 'road queens'). Here's how firefighters are killed in actuality:

http://www.nfpa.org/research/report...efighter-deaths-by-cause-and-nature-of-injury

But for some reason nobody thinks it's heroic going to a fire when you could be killed by a vehicle accident .... at any moment! No, that's not heroism. Instead it's always imagined that they are running immense risks by going into burning buildings and saving lives, this is the heroism they are lauded for. But that disparages people who run significantly greater risks doing things that are just as important, socially, but aren't as 'sexy.' It's a cartoon version of heroism.

How many actually die while in the process of fighting a fire is besides the point. There isn't much people can do to protect themselves from random accidents. But It is not like a driver of an automobile would get up and see tornadoes and say "I think I will go drive my car around". Or a fisherman sees a hurricane and says, I think I will go out anyway. Most people are doing all they can to avoid any risk to their safety but sometimes accidents happen.

Firefighters have said "I agree ahead of time to take on a great risk to my safety if the need arises". That's a big difference. Sure some jobs may result in more accidental deaths. But knowing ahead of time you are facing a life threatening situation and still agreeing to run into the flames? Are you basically saying there is no such thing as a hero if it is your job? Because I would disagree. People get purple hearts in war all the time. It was their job to be a soldier. If you choose to put your life at risk to try to save another life, that is hero stuff to me. Being able to pay your bills for agreeing to serve that role for society doesn't diminish it imo.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Again, this seems to be a misconception. Only a minority of firefighter deaths are caused by burns/fire/smoke. Most of them die from vehicle accidents, heart attacks, and overexertion. The huge killer is guys fighting forest fires who collapse ... they aren't saving lives, they are just out there grinding in the forest with shovels in high heat and heavy equipment, which is horribly dangerous (btw, those guys disparage urban firefighters as 'road queens'). Here's how firefighters are killed in actuality:

http://www.nfpa.org/research/report...efighter-deaths-by-cause-and-nature-of-injury

But for some reason nobody thinks it's heroic going to a fire when you could be killed by a vehicle accident .... at any moment! No, that's not heroism. Instead it's always imagined that they are running immense risks by going into burning buildings and saving lives, this is the heroism they are lauded for. But that disparages people who run significantly greater risks doing things that are just as important, socially, but aren't as 'sexy.' It's a cartoon version of heroism.

I think one element that you're underrating is how identifiable the comparative risks are of dangerous professions. Not many citizens can identify with the fear of marine accidents or, save for claustrophobics, mine collapses. On the other hand, every man, woman, and child can relate to the fear of fire, heat, and what those concepts represent: torturous and disfiguring death. These are things a lot of people purposefully attempt to ignore as plausible realities.

For me, my biggest fear is trypophobia (presents of hole patterns), so I'm not sure who is a dragon-slayer type to me. Probably someone who can see interiors of bones and vegetables without going into shock.

 

[Malthian]

For me the measure of classical heroism is less about the day to day risks (there are plenty of jobs with that), but more about what is the extreme end of risk that is demanded of those in their occupations.

Anyone can become acclimatized to day to day risk such as high rise window washers or fishermen. However, those occupations rarely demand that a person take a singular, high risk action. Yes, fisherman have a high risk occupation, but when a ship is caught in the middle of a raging storm and someone is at risk of being thrown overboard not everyone will go out into the raging storm and try to bring them in. Yes, at those moments those fishermen who do step out into the raging storm are heroes, but not every fisherman is expected to rise to that occasion.

Every fire fighter and front line policeman is expected and willing to go into singular, high risk, life threatening situations should circumstances demand it. They are asked to place themselves directly into harm's way at a moment's notice, and to do so in spite of every fiber of their DNA telling them that it's a very bad idea.

It's not natural to go into a burning building, or to stand in front of the raging inferno of a forest blaze, or to walk into the range of a deranged criminal wielding a gun.

Getting through life through hard times is just life. We all get dealt various decks and we make the best of it. Sometimes it demands that we make hard choices or to face dangerous situations and at those moments we can and sometimes do become heroes.

However, the everyday job of living rarely demands people to be heroes. Most of us do not face singular, life threatening danger. And we are not viewed poorly for evading danger. Nobody looks poorly at the single mother or father who runs from a firefight, or who grabs their things and flees a burning building. Nobody knocks the fisherman for looking out for their own safety.

However, valor is expected from fire fighters and police. Their job description includes the expectation that they will NOT run when dangerous situations demand their attention. Sure, not every officer will face down the barrel of a gun. And not every fire fighter will be required to run into a burning building to rescue a civilian. However, they know from the moment they put on that uniform that the day may come where they will be asked to do so, to put their lives on the line and potentially lose them.

Take the guys on the french train. Lots of people on the train just living their every day lives. Yet a banker, a computer IT consultant, a college student, an English teacher from the Sorbonne, a national guardsman and an air force serviceman all chose to step directly into danger and not be by standers. For that shining moment, they all became heroes because they chose to do what most of us would NOT do, which is to step directly into the crossfire.

It is about how much would you put on the line when the worst comes to pass. If your occupation demands that you put your life in the line of fire, then it is by definition a heroic occupation.

 

[Terry Noonan]

Logic rarely shows itself on this forum... My god.

 

[oldshadow]

For me the measure of classical heroism is less about the day to day risks (there are plenty of jobs with that), but more about what is the extreme end of risk that is demanded of those in their occupations.

.

Good post.+

 

[Hans Gruber]

The hate is this thread is at times, laughable, other times, it is sad. As a police officer, I am at times, jealous, of the love, or lack of hate, that firefighters get as compared to police officers. I know that the firefighters in my city do not fight many fires, but spend most of their days either at the station, or responding to medical emergencies. But when called upon to do great things, they do not hesitate.

In an ironic twist, our police department has saved more people from fires in the last dozen years than the firefighters, but that is a result of being more mobile and on scene first. In a recent incident, several officers got minor burns and smoke inhalation from trying to cut two people from a burning car. Unfortunately, both died, but those officers were incredibly brave and put themselves at substantial risk climbing into a burning vehicle, even making one last try to recover the driver, whom was already deceased, just so the family would have something to bury.

My point is, hate on firefighters and police for whatever reasons you want to manufacture, but when shit happens, they respond and rise to the occasion. I don't care what numbers you want to try and use to try and make their jobs less dangerous, the underlying danger and being one bad call away from serious peril is always there.

And I am not saying that regular people don't do those same heroic acts when the occasion presents itself, but these two professions are the only ones are compelled to respond and find themselves in danger's maw way more often than is reported or recognized. As an aside, I watched the videos of those officers trying to get the people out of that vehicle, and not one word was ever mentioned in the press-only that it was a fatal accident-then they moved on to another "scandal" story.

Good post brother. I appreciate what you do. Ignore the limp wristed whiners that would piss themselves in fear if they were ever in a situation that they might have to do something even remotely dangerous to help their fellow man.

 

[A&R_Superstar]

Just let the firemen be heroes. Even if they never ran into a burning building, they might one day. I grew up around the FDNY, my highschool girlfriend's dad was a borough commander of Staten Island. These guys are awesome and i know a a lot of them like the uniform to pick up chicks. They are also usually the first responders to 911 calls. Anyone who does a job that is to help people and serve an essential community need is in some way a hero.

 

[RemyR]

As a firefighter/paramedic myself in a busier city I find some of the responses here amusing. Never thought I'd see people who straight up dislike my profession and those that choose to do it.

Do I consider myself a hero though? Fuck no. I'm a guy doing my job. But I definitely think my job is vital to the community and citizens I serve and I have saved lives in the process. I'm not looking to be called a hero by any means (and honestly would rather not), but if someone I've helped in their time of need wants to express their gratitude for what I do by using that word I'd thank them.

Also as a side note it really irks me that some people say we're overpaid. I earn 52k a year. I get by, but I'm not exactly "rich" by any means. Theres about a hundred other professions out there I'd call "overpaid" before us.

Edit - also just I see a lot of people talking about wildland firefighting. As I said before, I work in a pretty busy city fire wise, and even I consider what those guys are doing is crazy. I do some pretty hazardous and downright stupid shit sometimes, and I have no desire do that stuff lol.

 

[ObsoleteSoul]

Who hates on firemen? What is going on in this place????

I don't know if hero is the correct term, but I think the chances of them doing heroic actions in desperate times, is pretty high up there compared with most occupations.

 

[rshawneecarbon1]

Wildland firefighters

This is what I do. Ya it feels crazy at times. Digging line for hours. Walking with 45 lb + packs for miles. Long hours and overnight stays. 14+ days and over 200 hours. I don't feel overpaid though. The money ads up quick with that amount of overtime. When your house is about to be engulfed by a 100000 acre fire you so be amazed at how even anti government people are grateful enough to hug you.

 

[LionExMachina]

Wildland firefighters

This is what I do. Ya it feels crazy at times. Digging line for hours. Walking with 45 lb + packs for miles. Long hours and overnight stays. 14+ days and over 200 hours. I don't feel overpaid though. The money ads up quick with that amount of overtime. When your house is about to be engulfed by a 100000 acre fire you so be amazed at how even anti government people are grateful enough to hug you.

So.....?

 

[rshawneecarbon1]

So.....?

Just adding my 2 cents man. A lot of people view firefighters as sitting around in the city. Well there's a whole other group out there doing this for a full fire season. If it makes you uncomfortable or you don't like it I'm sorry.

 

[LionExMachina]

Just adding my 2 cents man. A lot of people view firefighters as sitting around in the city. Well there's a whole other group out there doing this for a full fire season. If it makes you uncomfortable or you don't like it I'm sorry.

It doesnt make me uncomfortable at all. I used to live in BC, we have more than our fair share of forest fires. It's crazy work, hard tough work. No denying that.

Just wanted to know what you were trying to buy with two cents.