Finland ends experiment with universal basic income

[Breakfast Bar]

"The Finnish government reportedly announced Tuesday that it will end the country’s universal basic income program by year's end -- and appears to be taking on new measures to cut benefits to those who do not actively seek employment.

Finland was considered the first European country to pay a monthly check of $685 to its unemployed between ages 25 and 58. It was considered a pilot program -- serving 2,000 randomly selected jobless people -- that its founders hoped to expand..."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/0...versal-basic-income-program-by-years-end.html

Looks like idealism hit the brick wall of reality (again).

 

[panamaican]

I saw this, I would like to read their findings when they eventually publish them.

 

[Son of Jamin]

So you could say that the Finnish are finished with this?

 

[snakedafunky]

"The Finnish government reportedly announced Tuesday that it will end the country’s universal basic income program by year's end -- and appears to be taking on new measures to cut benefits to those who do not actively seek employment.

Finland was considered the first European country to pay a monthly check of $685 to its unemployed between ages 25 and 58. It was considered a pilot program -- serving 2,000 randomly selected jobless people -- that its founders hoped to expand..."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/0...versal-basic-income-program-by-years-end.html

Looks like idealism hit the brick wall of reality (again).

Interesting was that $685 on top of social security or just that?
In Germany the minimum you get from the government as social security is around 400 Euros.
That is if you still live with your parents otherwise you get money for a flat as well (within a certain budget) and other benefits.

But those benefits are also subject to cuts if you don't seek employment.

 

[Falsedawn]

"The Finnish government reportedly announced Tuesday that it will end the country’s universal basic income program by year's end -- and appears to be taking on new measures to cut benefits to those who do not actively seek employment.

Finland was considered the first European country to pay a monthly check of $685 to its unemployed between ages 25 and 58. It was considered a pilot program -- serving 2,000 randomly selected jobless people -- that its founders hoped to expand..."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/0...versal-basic-income-program-by-years-end.html

Looks like idealism hit the brick wall of reality (again).

Considering that "reality" appears to be the optics associated with free money as opposed to any fiduciary concerns, this amounts to a misfire.

And just to illustrate how shit Fox News is, here's the crux of the NY Times article that it editorializes.

This may be the main reason that basic income has lost momentum in Finland: It is effectively redundant.

Health care is furnished by the state. University education is free. Jobless people draw generous unemployment benefits and have access to some of the most effective training programs on earth.

“In a sense,” said Mr. Hiilamo, the social policy professor, “Finland already has basic income.”

Fox News would have you believe that they ran out of money and freaked out. The reality is that it was an experiment to begin with and that they're using the results to revamp their social services programs.

 

[KILL KILL]

There's no need for it yet. Automation is still in its infancy.

 

[snakedafunky]

I saw this, I would like to read their findings when they eventually publish them.

Yeah, I was thinking the same. Would be interesting to get some more details.
Because that will be an issue that will become more important in the near future.

 

[panamaican]

Yeah, I was thinking the same. Would be interesting to get some more details.
Because that will be an issue that will become more important in the near future.

Yeah, and almost any other source is likely to spin the reasons and the findings in a way that muddies the conclusions.

 

[ElKarlo]

I saw this, I would like to read their findings when they eventually publish them.

Yeah, I want to know more of the reasoning. Now it's just conjecture.
Bet they were on sherdog sending dick picks to mods all day

 

[snakedafunky]

Yeah, and almost any other source is likely to spin the reasons and the findings in a way that muddies the conclusions.

I hope there will be some kind of government report with actual numbers.
Not a report from Info Wars or Red Front Daily.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

I too will be interested in the findings. I believe the Ontarion Premier is looking to start a pilot program too. It would be nice to compare the two.

 

[ultramanhyata]

"The Finnish government reportedly announced Tuesday that it will end the country’s universal basic income program by year's end -- and appears to be taking on new measures to cut benefits to those who do not actively seek employment.

Finland was considered the first European country to pay a monthly check of $685 to its unemployed between ages 25 and 58. It was considered a pilot program -- serving 2,000 randomly selected jobless people -- that its founders hoped to expand..."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/0...versal-basic-income-program-by-years-end.html

Looks like idealism hit the brick wall of reality (again).

It's not UBI - by definition - if it's only going to the unemployed. This sounds more like it was a pilot program to either increase or extend unemployment benefits.

Of course, it's impossible to say for sure based on this typical Fox article so bereft of factual detail.

 

[Goonerview]

Governments should stop trying to "engineer society".

Just protect us and our property and then leave us alone.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I hope there will be some kind of government report with actual numbers.
Not a report from Info Wars or Red Front Daily.

So Hannity's or Tucker's abstracts won't be sufficient??

 

[Orgasmo]

Just print more money so everyone will be multi-millionaires like Venezuela.

 

[superpunch]

Give me enough money to live off of and I'll never work another day in my life.

I'll just stay at home drinking Mountain Dew and playing video games.

 

[Prokofievian]

Kela is the organization that handles social benefits. This is their article on the subject: foreign media have distorted what's actually going on.

http://www.kela.fi/-/kansainvalisessa-mediassa-virheellista-tietoa-perustulokokeilun-paattymisesta

In the international media erroneous information about the end of the baseline experiment

In many international media, information has been published that Finland is going to suspend a baseline experiment. However, the experiment will continue according to the original plan until the end of 2018.

Many foreign media have released news on recent days that Finland is suspending the baseline experiment planned earlier. The information is incorrect.

"The experiment will proceed according to the plan and will continue until the end of 2018," says the research team leader, Professor Olli Kangas from Kela.

According to current information, the experiment will not continue or expand afterwards.

Effects will be examined at the end of the experiment

The results of the experimentation will result from the employment impact of the base experiment.

- Effects will not be reported during the trial, as public processing of the results could affect the behavior of test and control individuals. That would distort the results of the research, Kangas says.

The baseline experiment started in January 2017. The 2,000 test people involved receive a basic salary of EUR 560 per month regardless of their other results or, for example, whether they are actively seeking employment. Kela is responsible for implementing the experiment.

The aim of the experiment is to find out how the simplification of the social security system and the improvement of financial incentives for work affect the employment of the test people. In addition, the effects of the experiment on the well-being of the subjects and the experience with the authorities are studied.

Google translate did a surprisingly good job with finnish in this instance. A lot of times the result is quite retarded.

 

[Andy Capp]

So, I ask myself, why do people keep posting Fox News reports that are about articles published by other sources, instead of just posting the original source? Hm.

 

[Staph infection]

If you give people free money they won’t look for a job? Who would of thought such a thing was possible.

 

[snakedafunky]

So, I ask myself, why do people keep posting Fox News reports that are about articles published by other sources, instead of just posting the original source? Hm.

The thing is this was an experience anyway. Maybe it didn't work out. But what they tried to do was trying to make social security more efficient.
And I don't want to sound too critical about the American social security system but the European one is much better by almost all measures.

But Fox News and their minions are right on it trying to smear the Finns for trying to improve their system. That's why it is difficult to sympathize with American conservatives.
The only experiment they are willing to take is tax cuts for the rich. Which is a tried and failed method already.