Finishing the Galvao style torreando pass?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by BjjStats, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. BjjStats

    BjjStats Yellow Belt

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    The pass I'm referring to is here:
    [YT]i8Xi3JxEXd8[/YT]

    Often this pass is finished by running the hips to the opposite side and ending in a leg drag. My problem is that once I have initiated the pass, as I try to get the hips to turn away, my opponent keeps shrimping and I end up kind of chasing him.

    What is the proper way to complete this pass in a leg drag? How do you prevent the person from shrimping?
     
  2. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    If you pull up on their bottom leg after you turn the corner, they can't shrimp because you're forcing their back to the mat. Actively lift their bottom leg after you get around to the side.
     
  3. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    It can be tough to stop them from shrimping. You can pull up on the leg, but it's not easy to lift a guy's hips like that.

    One thing you can do though is be prepared to collapse the top knee down as soon as he shrimps. His shrimping makes this easy to do. Then you spin around over the legs to the back. In this way you don't need to run the hips afterwards because you passed to the back door in the first place. You only need to run the hips when you pass to the front door.

    A lot of passes start with the front door then finish with the back door after a shrimp. Even with the leg drag it can be hard to hit the first one. A lot of times it's easier to just redrag on the other leg as it comes over top and switch sides that way.
     
  4. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    the hard thing about this is that you have the bottom leg, and to re drag you really need the top leg. This side switch works well in the traditional torreando or the long step, because you have the top leg and can smash it to the ground in both of those situations. Less so here.

    One thing I should have noted: backstepping makes it easier to pull up on the bottom leg. I basically fall on them (on my side) facing their legs to finish here.
     
  5. kuristus

    kuristus Orange Belt

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    I think an important aspect of this pass, and one I often forget, is the head pressure on his far shoulder. It really helps rotate him onto his back, making it much harder for him to shrimp.
     
  6. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    Pass to North-South if he's trying hard to hip escape.

    Also, just to say - this pass is awesome. I find if you can get the grips you can pass 90% of the time.
     
  7. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    Yep. And if the bottom guy can get grips, he can sweep 90% of the time. BJJ guys up to about purple vastly underestimate the importance of grip fighting in every position. It's probably the most useful thing I took to BJJ from Judo other than good TDs.
     
  8. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    No doubt you're right, but this particular variation seems almost like a guaranteed pass with very limited defense once you establish the grips. I've found that I can pass with Galvao's Torreando a lot easier than with any other pass, I think the pinning of the bottom leg and killing of the hip is a kind of "double tap" that just makes it extremely high percentage.
     
  9. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    It's very high %, I use it a lot. The only defense I've found is to invert as they turn the corner, but it's not easy if they have really strong pressure down on your knee. As the OP noted though, it's not always easy to close the distance and during the inevitable grip change that occurs during that time the guard player has to be ready to create space and either invert or get a leg in.

    This was probably the first open guard pass that I ever had a lot of success with, I think it's conceptually pretty simple and does just work so well.
     
  10. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Definitely a much better variation than the classic toreando.

    Key to defending any of these passes is to escape your hip ridiculously far while blocking the near side wrist. Most of my subs from guard nowadays come from this extremely simple maneuver, I just lazily let people try to pass from a pants grip. As long as you dominate the near wrist and jam it under the guy, he is actually in a bad position, ready for an easy inverted armbar or leg attack. People lose to this pass because they keep trying to bring their hip in towards their opponent and turtle or recover guard, which is too hard against good grips. Inversion, it's extremely hard for the guy to control your hip if you just run it out to almost North/South while controlling his near wrist. Then his whole side is open to attack. But you can't invert if you don't block his wrist first and then escape your hips super far, there's not enough eshpace.
     
  11. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    Zankou, the near side wrist would be the one on the pant grip, in this case?

    i have trouble imagining any easy inverted armbar or leg attack from there, you got any videos?
     
  12. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I haven't seen any vids on it. It somewhat resembles this maneuver. You are going to the same place, looping your leg through an inversion over into the pocket. There are many ways you can do this, the fundamental point being as long as you block the wrist and keep distance from your opponent, especially keeping your hip distant, it is very hard for him to stop the inversion.

    [YT]pBOdnbfvITM[/YT]
     
  13. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    @Zankou-
    Its basically the kimura grip armbar you're looking for, correct?
     
  14. NSchoke

    NSchoke Green Belt

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    I would think that a guy would push your head in to hip escape if you do whats shown. If thats the case I would post my head and outside hand, squeeze their hip and jump to the other side. This usually will expose their back. We drill this often. I don't remember if I saw the drill on Mendes or Galvao, they show it from leg drag with low posture, thats how we drill it.
     
  15. Zankou

    Zankou Muscle and Hate Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Basically, but I have come to prefer establishing the full kimura grip after the inversion, rather than before. If you establish the full kimura grip first, it can sometimes be difficult to free your hips enough and create enough space to invert properly. Also, your opponent is more aware.

    Still, the kimura grip is a great way to learn this guard pass counter, because it teaches you how you can just lazily fall on your back, with no control over your opponent except a kimura grip, and still be perfectly comfortable, spinning and inverting at your leisure. If your hip is totally free and that near arm is controlled, your opponent has nothing for you. The irony is that traditional "guard" kimura attacks are much less secure because your hips are locked into place and your opponent has gravity on his side. Once you figure out how to transition through the invert, with completely free hips, you see how much more movement and power you can create.

    Most failed inversions come from failing to create sufficient space, primarily because you are not escaping the hip enough, and are lazily trying to circle your foot over, akin to the classic "cross foot" defense. If you keep the hip close, your opponent will block the inversion, and even worse may leg drag you or go to your back with a smash pass/jump. If you escape the hip really far, there isn't much he can do to stop the inversion.
     
  16. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    Baller. Thank you.
    I remember us having this discussion re: the Mendes Bros back take off the kimura. Do you still try to push their wrist in between their legs to give yourself more space?
     
  17. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    Zankou, let's say someone does the pass galvao is showing to my right side.

    i use my right hand to control their left wrist, shove it deep under them, hip out as far as i can (and change the angle too, to like nearly north south?) and bring my left foot over, inverting over my right shoulder? am i picturing this right?

    what are you doing with your left hand in this case? my instinct would be to push on the shoulder of the arm i'm controlling to create space, or am i missing something?
     
  18. BjjStats

    BjjStats Yellow Belt

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    This is an interesting discussion. The entire reason that I try so hard to run the legs and finish this pass with a leg drag is because of guys who will stiff arm my wrist underneath me and roll me over with a "sucker roll". I have yet to encounter anybody who inverts as a counter.
     
  19. BJJArsenal

    BJJArsenal Brown Belt

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    That would be me.
     
  20. billzar

    billzar Yellow Belt

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    I use this pass a lot. What I do that helps me is I literally run my opponent's hips to the other side away from me (taking like 4 steps or more) using the leg grip while still keeping my other arm posted on their far side hip.

    Some other variations I've seen:
    -The Mendes bros site advocates leading with your shoulder into your opponent's hip first after turning the corner.

    -One of Galvao's black belts released a DVD on the leg drag and he shows this "Galvao pass" on it. He says that it's not even necessary to grip the leg and drag it to the other side, but what really turns your opponent's hips is by pushing the far side leg--hard to explain, but what you do is you put your forehead on the wrist of the arm you are posting on his hip and drive the far side leg away from you (and hence turning the hips away from you) with both the forearm of your posting arm as well as your head. IE: if you are passing to your opponent's right, your right arm would be posted on his left hip and you would drive his left leg away from you using your right forearm and head so his hips turn away from you.

    I haven't tried the last one as I've just seen the video, but it is an interesting idea.
     

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