FIGHTING IN BASKETBALL: A Noob Question

[Bullitt68]

It's very rare that I find myself here in the Sports Bar, so I apologize for showing up with a noob question, but hopefully you guys are willing to take some time out to school me on some basketball history. I know next to nothing about basketball, but, as a Chicagoan, I'm a huge Michael Jordan/Bulls fan. I'm currently rewatching the Bulls' first championship run on YouTube and I was confounded by this quick little excerpt from an interview with Phil Jackson that they aired on the broadcast during Game 4 of the Bulls/Pistons series:



My question: Did basketball players really used to fight? Was it hockey style where, if you took an elbow to the back, say, you'd ask the guy if he wanted to go and then you'd start swinging? Are there classic basketball fights that I don't know about akin to Bob Probert or Tie Domi fights? What has this noob been missing from the history of basketball?

Thanks in advance.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

fighting has never been allowed. People will tell you the game is soft now, but that's only half true. They actually call fewer fouls now than they did back in the day. But you used to have to bludgeon someone to get a flagrant foul, so they fouled harder more often which lead to the occasional fight. it was always an ejection and possible suspension if you did though. most basketball fights have been sad to watch though.

 

[Bullitt68]

fighting has never been allowed [...] it was always an ejection and possible suspension if you did

This sounds like it was never actually sanctioned within the rules of the game (the way that in hockey everyone stops and clears out so that the players can fight knowing full-well that the game will resume, and with the players who fought, shortly thereafter); it sounds more like it just didn't used to come with such severe punishment and thus was a viable option (from a risk/reward perspective) for players in response to hard fouls (the way that in hockey you know that you're going to have to sit in the box for five minutes for fighting but if it swings the momentum to your team then it's worth it).

Do I have that right?

 

[jrams]

Fighting was common in the 60s and 70s until Kermit Washington killed Rudy T.

 

[Bullitt68]

Fighting was common in the 60s and 70s until Kermit Washington killed Rudy T.

I mentioned in my last post the risk/reward of fighting in basketball back then. Well, according to the description in that YouTube vid, that guy got suspended for 26 games for throwing that punch. Did the punishments used to be less severe and that incident was the powers that be stepping in and saying "enough is enough"?

 

[ProBoxingInsidr]

problem now is these players are absolutely horrible at fighting. most of them dont want to do it because they know they will look like a fool throwing their girl punches. thats why you see players like Durant acting really hard but never actually fighting. he knows he cant. seriously, basketball players make soccer players look like a bunch of Stipe's

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

I mentioned in my last post the risk/reward of fighting in basketball back then. Well, according to the description in that YouTube vid, that guy got suspended for 26 games for throwing that punch. Did the punishments used to be less severe and that incident was the powers that be stepping in and saying "enough is enough"?

Rudy T almost died from that punch. His face was completely destroyed and he had brain fluid leaking from the crack in his skull when he landed. The fact that there was no way for him to see it coming was why the suspension was so long. He's running in to help and just gets nailed, running straight into it.

But yeah, there has been a long trend of rules to limit fighting and increase punishments since that time. In the 80's or 90's they started enforcing the rule that anyone who leaves the bench (even if just to help break it up) is suspended automatically. And big fights get big suspensions.

A famous one was when PJ Brown flipped Charlie Ward in the middle of a playoff game and all hell broke loose. So many Knick players got suspended for leaving the bench they had to do the suspensions in shifts so they could still field a team.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

This sounds like it was never actually sanctioned within the rules of the game (the way that in hockey everyone stops and clears out so that the players can fight knowing full-well that the game will resume, and with the players who fought, shortly thereafter); it sounds more like it just didn't used to come with such severe punishment and thus was a viable option (from a risk/reward perspective) for players in response to hard fouls (the way that in hockey you know that you're going to have to sit in the box for five minutes for fighting but if it swings the momentum to your team then it's worth it).

Do I have that right?

Sort of, though it's hard to claim it was worth it, unless it was near the end of a blow out game.

 

[gspieler]

It's never been like in hockey best I can tell. It just used to be a slightly bigger part of the game. Back in the 90's, it was rare to go a playoffs without the Knicks getting into at least one brawl. I think the Sherk was jumped with the Auburn Hill incident in '04, though. Since then, the league's been pretty tame.

 

[hearthstone25]

Youtube malice at the palace

 

[Mo8_98]

Larry Bird and Dr. J. with Charles Barkley holding Bird by the neck.

Bird is regarded as the greatest trash talker of all time. he got the gentle Dr. so pissed they had to knuckle up. Dr. J got about three clean straight rights into Bird's face.

suspended anyone? nope! just a 7,500 dollar fine
nothing happened. they just went about playing the rest of the game

nowadays, this is a suspension for a game in the fucking finals. lol.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Larry Bird and Dr. J. with Charles Barkley holding Bird by the neck.

Bird is regarded as the greatest trash talker of all time. he got the gentle Dr. so pissed they had to knuckle up. Dr. J got about three clean straight rights into Bird's face.

suspended anyone? nope! just a 7,500 dollar fine
nothing happened. they just went about playing the rest of the game

nowadays, this is a suspension for a game in the fucking finals. lol.

In fairness, Gaymond was suspended because he accrued too many flagrant/technical fouls. Not because the league was claiming that one was too egregious.

 

[HomerThompson]

In fairness, Gaymond was suspended because he accrued too many flagrant/technical fouls. Not because the league was claiming that one was too egregious.

Plus, fuck that can.

 

[Prefect]

Rudy T almost died from that punch. His face was completely destroyed and he had brain fluid leaking from the crack in his skull when he landed. The fact that there was no way for him to see it coming was why the suspension was so long. He's running in to help and just gets nailed, running straight into it.

But yeah, there has been a long trend of rules to limit fighting and increase punishments since that time. In the 80's or 90's they started enforcing the rule that anyone who leaves the bench (even if just to help break it up) is suspended automatically. And big fights get big suspensions.

A famous one was when PJ Brown flipped Charlie Ward in the middle of a playoff game and all hell broke loose. So many Knick players got suspended for leaving the bench they had to do the suspensions in shifts so they could still field a team.

I don't really blame Kermit Washington. A skirmish was breaking out and Rudy T comes sprinting in. He nailed Rudy and Rudy went down and bounced his head off of the floor.

The thing that impresses me about the whole thing is that most basketball players can't throw a punch worth a shit.

 

[llperez22]

the nba has defenitely raised the bar on limiting altercations with heavier fines. And the 80's/early 90's did see some tougher basketball with harder fouls. But people do go overboard with how tough it was then compared to now. I mean go watch a game on youtube, the handchecking and tough plays were not that bad. Scoring, fg% and number of trips to the ft line have never been higher league wide then they were in the late 80's

 

[Ceez]

Plus, fuck that can.

You can say that but taking him away directly affected the cavs winning that series. LeBrick was given a gift and the Warios should be on a 3 peat run right now chasing their 4th consecutive..

 

[HomerThompson]

You can say that but taking him away directly affected the cavs winning that series. LeBrick was given a gift and the Warios should be on a 3 peat run right now chasing their 4th consecutive..

Please, Ceez. Warriors got a gift when LeBron had to play them without Kyrie, or Love the first time.

 

[Ceez]

Please, Ceez. Warriors got a gift when LeBron had to play them without Kyrie, or Love the first time.

Damn you and your reasonable logic. Fuck @dream

 

[Uptown Swinger]

Robert Parish only received a regular foul for this combination. He was allowed to finish the game then received a ONE game suspension after league review.

 

[iwhoopedbatman]

Please, Ceez. Warriors got a gift when LeBron had to play them without Kyrie, or Love the first time.

Yup. Plus Gaymond was out for one game, with them up 3-1. He came back for game 6 up 3-2. If this is an excuse for blowing a 3-1 lead, LMAO. No wonder they begged the Butler to come play with them.