Fighting a grappler 101: The Sherdogger's guide to keeping it on your feet

[tapb4dasnap**]

Nice thread

 

[knuckleball]

Dude, Was That Dory Funk Jr. Doing The Wizzer? Wtf?????!?!

 

[cockysprinter]

a couple things i find helpful...

to avoid a shot, circle and throw hooks a lot. since shooting normal goes straight forward its a good way to avoid getting stuck in a clean shot. you can also throw straights without commitment, but a good hook while sidestepping works well.

get a neck clinch as often as possible. i think the best defense against someone trying to take you down is to use a clinch. that way you dont have to worry about a shot (which should be the primary concern of a striker), and as long as you can hold a neck clinch and use knees youll be in good shape. after all, a clinch doesnt have to take a striker out of his element, because he is still standing and has tools at his disposal.

take advantage of backwards movement. someone cant shoot or strike going backwards, so dont give him room to breathe.

 

[Sanchoy]

1. keep moving, and stay out of the line of fire.. exp. if opponent squares up againt you, keep moving clockwise/counter clockwise.. harder to shoot at you. Avoid stationary fighting.

2. utilize set up strikes, fake jab/ than kick, and vice versa.

3. If fighter moves in too fast/ make sure you make them pay every time with a hard strike.. Most grapplers tend to fake, than go low for your legs, knee strike is very good solution.

4. pivot away... just by pivoting away the grappler has to adjust his line of fire.. leaving him open for a strike.. and your not taking the full momentum of the power of the takedown.

 

[_All-State_]

I'd also add something about spiraling (Cro Cop) and going in for the reshot (Sakuraba, Randleman) as a viable takedown defense. It's an offensive move and a defensive move at the same time. Les Gutches (OSU) used to have a video, but their website is gone.

 

[blanko]

to defeat a grappler : Learn no to grapple. Simple as that.

 

[blanko]

also if you have no ground game, be agressive. Throw bombs. Even Bas does not believe in jabs in mma.

 

[Tone C]

Thanks 4 that.

 

[gotHEARTfighter]

i have an idea..train grappling too

 

[thecas]

One thing here too..Don't u find that if you concentrate on "Arching back as much as possible", it is difficult to be focused on pushing the other guy?

 

[riacef1]

that was excellent, but I just dont like whizzers for MMA, other than that. I thought it was extremely informative

 

[Immolation]

I think this will be very useful. Sharing information is how we all evolve our game.

 

[Vovchanchyn Fan]

Great thread - I really enjoyed the initial post.

I would just add a few comments that people have already touched on:

a)having a good defensive grappling game gives you the freedom to strike harder and more aggressively, since you know your worst case of going to the ground is not that bad. compare cro-cop when he first fought silva and was so tentative vs. now where he's comfortable to let fly.

b)the thai clinch can work wonders on grapplers who rush in to try and clinch - its a bit like fighting fire with fire if they are closing space upright to try and tie you up. Thai clinch, knee, and spin them off into the ropes.

c)Angles, angles, angles. Committing to a shot (takedown) is a linear affair and you can't readily change directions once you commit, therefore learning to step off at angles (like any good boxer) is the fastest way to continuously create distance and keep yourself upright. Backing straight up is a great way to ensure you will get taken down since the ring is only so big....

d)feints go a long ways - most grapplers want to time their takedown to when you've committed yourself to a strike, so make them less certain when/if thats going to happen on the start of any strike.

e)eating an uppercut or knee is usually a grapplers biggest concern when going for a takedown....so use them often.

As already noted, spending some time training takedowns yourself is one of the best ways to see what your opponent might be thinking/attempting, and you can better understand how to defend them. Or more succintly:
"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. " Sun Tzu, Art of War

 

[ScottAM]

One neglected subject is how to avoid Judo type throws and leg trips in the clinch. I don't have too much experience but you can:

Drop your hips so opponent can't get their hips under yours

Push their hips away from yous

throw knees/strikes

 

[ccl2087]

nicely done man, thanks for the information

 

[IkkussSpikkuss]

First off, I love this thread! Great job, you make Sherdog a good place to hang out! I was going to say that you should add the single leg sprawl tactic. For strikers with a more angled stance, like myself, we usually get caught in singles, not doubles. I like the single leg sprawl. For a good example watch Penn vs. Hughes II before BJ gasses. You have to be flexible, but its a good way to keep from going down and a great way to conserve energy while your opponent is using a sh*t load. I also would recommend that after you've stuffed the initial momentum of the shot and you find yourself stuck in a sprawl of some kind, striking is a great way to finish getting away. Hammer fists and downward punches to the side of the head is a surefire way to get a wrestler to want to be anywhere, but there. Don't make em haymakers, you shifitng your weight might be what he needs to put you back in trouble, but simple arm driven shots will get him off of you if you feed him enough of them. And it might even soften him up for when you are both standing again. Or you can try to elbow or forearm the exposed ribs of the wrestler where his liver or heart is to really empty his gas tank. WAR Striking!!!!!

 

[KheperaMayet]

The sprawl. The striker's best friend, next to his strikes, of course. He shoots in for your leg(s), and you shoot your feet back. There are several key points to the sprawl:

-Use your hands and arms in tandem with the sprawl to fight his upper body.
-Arch your back and shove your hips down as hard as you possibly can. The greater the arch, the better.
-Stay on the tops of your feet, not your toes. If he pushes you when your shoelaces (or tops of your feet) are touching the mat, you'll simply slide back, whereas if you're on the balls of your feet, his forward motion will stand you up and drive you onto your back.
-Stay off of your knees at all costs.
-If you can sprawl away at an angle, do it.
-Do not lock your hands around his waist.

The best example I could find. He's arching as hard as possible, while keeping hip pressure on the opponent's head. If you can arch harder, do it.

In my opinion, you can arch too much, if your arch is pulling your upper body very far away from your opponent. The idea is to drive the hips down, not lift the shoulders up. If you create a lot of space between your chest and your opponent's back, you're raising your center of gravity too high and weakening your control over the fighter underneath you. At that point you're arching to no purpose.

With that caveat, yes, the deeper you can drive your hips, the more arched you end up, and as long as your arch is driving your opponent down and not driving you up, the more arch, the better.

Do other experienced wrestlers here agree or disagree?

The front quarter nelson An awesome attack to use in combination with a sprawl. Your sprawl doesn't need to be as hard and perfect to execute this. He shoots, you sprawl back. From this position, push down on his head with one hand. With the other hand, overhook the arm closest to your free hand, and slide your arm through so that you grab the wrist of your posting hand with your overhooking hand.

You can execute a turnover from here, or you can simply use it to break his grip and take him out of position before you break away.

It is indeed awesome. The high school I used to wrestle for dominated the local wrestling scene by specializing in the front-quarter, and although it looks a little flimsy, it is a very secure position and can be used to enormous effect against even seasoned wrestlers. Although the photos show it applied from the side, it can be applied from the front as easily.

I would change one thing about the execution method described above. Once you're good at sprawling (and that's a pre-requisite; don't add this complication until you've got a good fast sprawl), practice a variation on the sprawl where you grab the top of your opponent's neck on your way down. (This is easier if your opponent shoots in with his head down, which is a very common mistake even at the professional level.)

When you get good at catching the neck as you're sprawling down, you'll be able to hit the front-quarter MUCH faster, which is essential if you're up against a wrestler with fast reflexes and familiarity with how to continue after being subject to the sprawl.

I would also add that once you've got the front-quarter, it's important to use your overhook to lift up on the shoulder while applying downward pressure on the neck. This helps prevent your opponent from having easy mobility, which is the whole point.

Lastly, the original article does not discuss any details on how to disengage, if your goal is to get back to a stand-up fight. While simply shoving your opponent away as you stand will usually be effective, if you don't do it quickly and forcefully, a quick wrestler may re-grab you as you're trying to get away.

A simple technique can greatly increase your odds of getting away clean. You have a great deal of control over your opponent's neck because you have such a secure grip on it with this hold. Simply shove your opponent's neck directly left or directly right (either direction is fine), and as their body starts to spin from the force, release your wrist and move yourself away in the opposite direction. A good shove can move your opponent a foot or more, but more importantly, can spin them around 90 degrees away from you, completely the wrong position to mount any kind of attack upon you, especially when you're moving away in the opposite direction. Try it in practice and see what I mean.

Other than these minor variations, I thought the original article was fantastic and was grateful to read it. I'm in the opposite situation--I'm predominantly a grappler looking to transition into mma, but it's always good to know what the opposition is doing.

 

[KheperaMayet]

I agree with you on many of these things but having 7 years of wrestling experience I'd have to say that when you sprawl you should land on the bottom part of the foot and stay on your toes. This allows you to spin around your opponent or adjust accordingly if he switches from takedown to takedown. If you sprawl onto the tops of your feet then he can abuse you since no resistence is being met and can through you off balance easier. Everything else looks pretty good, congrats hope its a sticky.

Me and my 5 years of wrestling experience agree. I think having insecure footing while a large part of your body weight is resting upon a hostile opponent would be a bad thing.

 

[m0n0xide]

good stuff thyre, it will def. hepl my takedown defense considereing i liek standgin up better

 

[deadlyshaolin]

Bumping to the top.