Fighters who devolved into a brawling style

[whougonnacall]

Fedor turned into a brawler because his ground game turned to shit with all of those hand injuries.

theres lot of facets to fedors devolution
- his religious devotion in later years making him feel everything was gods will
- changes in camp from prime years ....lotta real killers stopped training there regularly even his own brother
- utter devotion to sambo (ambassador for the sport) meant he didnt want to be seen to train wrestling,bjj and muay thai etc ...wasnt til a few losses he started kickboxing in holland but by then too little too late
- hos own coaches said hed stopped training like a pro pre timmay and was training infrequently (may be religion or just got sick of slogging his guts out when he has milions who knows)

 

[TommyGunz]

Lytle went through that but he made it work. Wang, gurgel, rampage

 

[whougonnacall]

I immediately thought, Dan Henderson. Just thought it would've been mentioned immediately. I'm never too quick to jump on posts... but uh yeah, Hendo's a good example.

think dans grappling got worse as he left team quest and was no longer training with randy(who also left) and lindland anymore

 

[johndhi]

I think a lot of wrestlers have a tendency to do that. They win their early fights by using their wrestling, but then crack some guys so get confident in their hands, forgetting that the reason their hands work is because of their wrestling.

Ellenberger
Koscheck
Hughes (end of career)
hopefully Hendricks and Weidman don't fall into it.

 

[snoop dogg***]

Rampage. No more kicks, knees, or slams just punches. He would throw the same combo over & over regardless if he's winning or losing.

he slammed the shit out of bader

 

[Reel Box Fen**]

theres lot of facets to fedors devolution
- his religious devotion in later years making him feel everything was gods will
- changes in camp from prime years ....lotta real killers stopped training there regularly even his own brother
- utter devotion to sambo (ambassador for the sport) meant he didnt want to be seen to train wrestling,bjj and muay thai etc ...wasnt til a few losses he started kickboxing in holland but by then too little too late
- hos own coaches said hed stopped training like a pro pre timmay and was training infrequently (may be religion or just got sick of slogging his guts out when he has milions who knows)

Fedor is my favorite fighter ever and I dont mean to criticize him in any way but its clear that at sometime around the Mirko fight he completely neglected training his ground game.

Furthermore at that time was when his stand up looked the best its ever looked and also he had more hand injuries than ever at that point. I think all of that made him turn away from training his grappling as hard as he should have.

Defensively from his back and when on top, he could have benefited from training some BJJ here and there. I dont think he had to train to a black belt but just some nuances to help him in some moments. He was too reliant on exploding IMO however it worked well for him in his prime because of how strong he was.

When he began fighting in the US his ground game seemed to get worse and worse.The way Werdum triangled him so fast, the way he gave up position going for a Kimura and Rogers who revearsed him, the way Hunt laid on him, the way he gave up position going for a kimura on Bigfoot, how easily Bigfoot mounted him, the way Hendo slid out the back door and KO'd him from a position where Fedor should have maintained side control. This really showed very elementary grappling from Fedor from the perspective of pure BJJ. After the Hendo loss Fedor got BJJ coach from Holland who is a 17 year brown belt under Rickson Gracie. It was just too late by then.

Fedor neglected his grapppling over the years most likely due to all those hand injuries he had and his game suffered greatly because of it. This isnt to bash Fedor because he was a spectacular grappler for the generation which he came from. I was simply criticizing his grappling from the BJJ "Position before submission" stance on grappling. Hes my favorite fighter ever.

 

[MiroHa]

he slammed the shit out of bader

One of the few times he did in UFC and I doubt he would have done it if that fight didn't happen in Japan. In his Pride fights he did several slams/takedowns in almost every fight.

 

[Fujita]

Fedor.

Most exciting fighter ever, even in his decline.

 

[thechoice2]

possibly. but why would it ruin him more than the Randleman KO?

physically he was on the downward spiral before that fight. a high level kickboxer hardly being able to lift his foot above his waist makes for a pretty shitty fighter, eh?

Randleman fight was more of a flash KO against Gonzaga he was down and out for minutes.

 

[Fujita]

theres lot of facets to fedors devolution
- his religious devotion in later years making him feel everything was gods will
- changes in camp from prime years ....lotta real killers stopped training there regularly even his own brother
- utter devotion to sambo (ambassador for the sport) meant he didnt want to be seen to train wrestling,bjj and muay thai etc ...wasnt til a few losses he started kickboxing in holland but by then too little too late
- hos own coaches said hed stopped training like a pro pre timmay and was training infrequently (may be religion or just got sick of slogging his guts out when he has milions who knows)

Fedor trained in Holland in 2005, for the Cro Cop fight.

 

[Karelinator]

I may don't remember his recent fights too well, but Tito seemed to be the case as well.

Just couldn't really bring TD attempt worth much in his late career.

 

[Fujita]

One of the few times he did in UFC and I doubt he would have done it if that fight didn't happen in Japan. In his Pride fights he did several slams/takedowns in almost every fight.

He came close against Machida, crowed went nuts too.

 

[tdluxon]

This ... Dan goes for broke and tries to land the H-Bomb every time abandoning his good wrestling

Yeah Hendo never even bothers with wrestling anymore.

 

[Karelinator]

Diego Sanchez too, kinda.

Although it looks more like a case of him not being able to set up the TD anymore.

He wakes up sometimes, really pushed Burger's shit in that 3rd round, and Thiago fight was awesome.

Other than that, he just throws some wild shit, and gets demolished - fortunately for him, judges are smoking some strong stuff.

 

[Bluntforce420]

Nick Diaz came into UFC 44 a BJJ guy looking for takedowns for most of that Jeremy Jackson fight and by the time UFC 47 rolled around it appeared he had no interest in ground fighting. Of course he submitted guys throughtout his career but he never was the one to look for them

Its pretty funny when you listen to Rogan call the fight. You could tell he thought Nick had very little stand up skills back in the day

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

the fighter that always comes to mind when this is asked is ken shamrock. he has some solid wrestling, some solid submissions, and basically threw it all away for a brawling style.

 

[jlj49er]

Fedor is my favorite fighter ever and I dont mean to criticize him in any way but its clear that at sometime around the Mirko fight he completely neglected training his ground game.

Furthermore at that time was when his stand up looked the best its ever looked and also he had more hand injuries than ever at that point. I think all of that made him turn away from training his grappling as hard as he should have.

Defensively from his back and when on top, he could have benefited from training some BJJ here and there. I dont think he had to train to a black belt but just some nuances to help him in some moments. He was too reliant on exploding IMO however it worked well for him in his prime because of how strong he was.

When he began fighting in the US his ground game seemed to get worse and worse.The way Werdum triangled him so fast, the way he gave up position going for a Kimura and Rogers who revearsed him, the way Hunt laid on him, the way he gave up position going for a kimura on Bigfoot, how easily Bigfoot mounted him, the way Hendo slid out the back door and KO'd him from a position where Fedor should have maintained side control. This really showed very elementary grappling from Fedor from the perspective of pure BJJ. After the Hendo loss Fedor got BJJ coach from Holland who is a 17 year brown belt under Rickson Gracie. It was just too late by then.

Fedor neglected his grapppling over the years most likely due to all those hand injuries he had and his game suffered greatly because of it. This isnt to bash Fedor because he was a spectacular grappler for the generation which he came from. I was simply criticizing his grappling from the BJJ "Position before submission" stance on grappling. Hes my favorite fighter ever.

I don't disagree with anything you said but I recall reading an interview with Fedor where he said he just trains but not specifically for his opponent. This was long before the Werdum fight. I knew he'd lose at some point when I read that.

 

[Karelinator]

Fedor neglected his grapppling over the years most likely due to all those hand injuries he had and his game suffered greatly because of it. This isnt to bash Fedor because he was a spectacular grappler for the generation which he came from. I was simply criticizing his grappling from the BJJ "Position before submission" stance on grappling. Hes my favorite fighter ever.

I generally agree with this all, his grappling in recent times was, at times, so sloppy that it was heartbreaking, got Hendo almost forked, but got KO'd instead due to terrible excuse of top control... Let alone how easily he was controlled against the cage.

But I don't quite get the hand injuries argument.

How hand injures were preventing him from drilling grappling, and not from training those huge haymakers he was constantly throwing late in his career?

 

[tappedtostrikes**]

Fedor turned into a 1 dimensional head hunter in his last 10 fights or so.

 

[linvillegorge]

Nick Diaz came into UFC 44 a BJJ guy looking for takedowns for most of that Jeremy Jackson fight and by the time UFC 47 rolled around it appeared he had no interest in ground fighting. Of course he submitted guys throughtout his career but he never was the one to look for them

Its pretty funny when you listen to Rogan call the fight. You could tell he thought Nick had very little stand up skills back in the day

He has shitty wrestling. Actually, I think his defensive wrestling is a little underrated, but his takedowns definitely suck.