Fighters past their prime

[GOATtalks]

1.) You can google yourself, don't be lazy.

2.) From what list, a bunch of middling MWs like Chael, Smith, Santos. Who have Gus and Reyes ever beaten?
OSP was never best at anything. DC is x1, not 2. NC due to roids doesn't count.

And yes, his resume would be excellent, if not for the fact that it is tainted by roids and the fact that he towers/outreaches 95% of his opponents, instead of testing himself at HW.

1) I’m not lazy, it’s just impossible, because Fedor hasn’t beat 9 UFC champs

2) OSP, Gus, Smith, and Reyes all match Jones length. DC is a freakin HW, so Jones doesn’t have size advantage for sure. Jon weighs the same as Yoel and Costa inside the cage, so size argument is bullshit. Dude is skinny. Maybe you think Izzy is a HW too?

As typical Sherbro you acknowledge only the names that fought back in the day and in Pride, that must mean Reyes is shit because he didn’t fight 10 years ago.

Reyes beat Weidman, Volkan, OSP and Cannonier. All good opponents.

Gus beat Shogun, Glover, Manuva and Blachowicz. He also had razor close fights with Jon and DC, so you shouldn’t doubt that he’s legit

 

[MelG]

Age doesn't = mileage, but don't expect SherTwats to have double digit IQs.

And how do you know much mileage each fighter can put on?

 

[GOATtalks]

I think you can't discuss the term "Prime" without "Peak"

- fighter X's Prime could be from Age 24-31
- with fighter X peaking at age 28

Guys like Fedor obviously Peaked in pride, but he still retained much of his speed,reflexes, and durability from his earlier days in that Werdum fight. It was just a matter carelessness, he was still in his prime he just stopped fighting smart.

A fighters peak could be described as the combination of athleticism and skill reaching their highest points in unison, while a fighters prime could be considered the time when a fighter truly came into their own, they developed a winning formula/skillset despite not being at the true peak of their skills. You know a fighter is past their prime when they can't consistently perform the same winning formula they used to. It could be injuries, diminished speed, power, etc.

You hear all the time "Fighter X wasn't in his prime because he lost to Y", a fighters prime or peak has nothing to do with wins or losses, it's based on their own individual growth.

Out of the fighters you mentioned, these 2 are 100% past their prime with Jorge & Stipe not far behind.
Yoel
DC

-Jorge getting a WW title shot off of beating Nate diaz is an absolute joke
-Yoel getting a title shot after losing 3 of his last 4 is also a true anomaly

Just because a few guys are having success at an older age doesn't mean it is anywhere close to the norm. It has more to do with MMA politics than peak fighting skills.

Great points. But it’s actually not an anomaly. Almost all top fighters in every weight class are in their 30’s.

 

[Gamer007]

Great points. But it’s actually not an anomaly. Almost all top fighters in every weight class are in their 30’s.

I think this trend may have alot to do with the way MMA works and the barriers of entry for young men in a brutal physical sport like MMA where most 25 year old athletes can manhandle an 18 year old kid.

It generally takes years and years and a squeaky clean record to reach the UFC, I would love to see the average age for a debuting fighter in the UFC. I'd wager they're upwards of 26-27, that means by the time they can amass a legit top 15 type record in their division, they're already into their 30's or very close. We see it all the time where guys go on 5-0 & 6-0 streaks and get buried in the shuffle, sometimes due to injuries and shit luck. Then they finally get their chance to shine and they make a name for themselves.

fighters like Edmen, Rakic, Petr, Costa, Sandhagen, Holloway, Yair, Sterling, Cody, Johnny Walker, Lee, Till, Gastelum, Ladd, Namajunas, Saurez

This is just a few but they are all under 30 and have major spots in their divisions, some of them being former champions. It's no surprise to me that the majority of top 15 UFC fighters will be over 30, because for the majority of UFC fighters, you aren't sniffing a top 15 spot under 29 unless your division is weak or you have some really good marketing behind you.

We'll see if this trend keeps up but I just think we're at the end of an era, more and more young guys will begin to fill the top of divisions.

Remember this photo? every champ there was in there 20's outside of Anderson iirc. GSP was right on the cusp. As the next era is ushered in I think we'll return to this.

just my opinion tho

 

[basedgodfedor]

Everyone is different dude. Rashad said on JRE how his knee injury ruined him. Just one injury and he lost his explosiveness. Shogun was better in his 20s. Fedor, Wand, Cro Cop, JDS, Arlovski, there’s a bunch of dudes that did better in their 20s. You look at Fedor vs Cro Cop then Fedor vs Rogers and you don’t see a difference you’re kind of slow my man

 

[ostlerrage]

sadly i think tony is a little past it. i think he still gets the w though.

 

[Bacco]

Why is it dumb - because you disagree with it?

Because it simplify down the athletic performance prime to a question of wich number is next the voice "Age"

The prime/peak of and athlete is affected by so many factors

I find also hilarious how people seem to take the objective fact of performance getting worse with time as something must be used as a way to side with this or that fighter, mostly because large part of sherdog discussion level is my fighter good your fighter sucks

Anybody with eyes seen Fedor's decline starting well before the Werdum fight... example he looked slower and sloppier also with Arlovski or Rogers, the Sylvia flash victory being tricky, because Tim there just performed as a big helpless target. And we can go back
While at it in that period he lost his w streak at sambo too, before the mma one

Same way when Jones will lose i will not pretend "XXX defeated prime Jones!!!"
Same fair eyes that watched Fedor's decline should watch objectively Jones too, and say dude seem at begin of decline too

It's not even about concede a point to some other sherdogger, is about talk the sport for what it is


PS: while at it, Jones did defeated a decline version of Rampage and Shogun, BUT he would have defeated them in their prime too

 

[CodeBreaker]

Jones decides when to end his prime

 

[HHJ]

Jones decides when to end his prime

 

[Richard Fannin]

TS might've not been here at the time, but people were saying Fedor was past prime in his win over Brett Rogers.

For people watching Fedor since 2003, it was pretty obvious. Like people who literally watch the fights, not look up fight finder.

Any combat fan who followed Fedor's sambo career (a sport that tested for PEDs way more harshly than the UFC back then) knew that he started to seriously slow down in 2008, when he lost to Blagoi Ivanov.

He got sub'd in MMA by Werdum (best HW sub specialist in MMA at the time) 2 years after, it was a big shock back then (especially how fast he lost), but the signs of the decline were there.

 

[HHJ]

Any combat fan who followed Fedor's sambo career (a sport that tested for PEDs way more harshly than the UFC back then) knew that he started to seriously slow down in 2008, when he lost to Blagoi Ivanov.

He got sub'd in MMA by Werdum (best HW sub specialist in MMA at the time) 2 years after, it was a big shock back then (especially how fast he lost), but the signs of the decline were there.

When he didnt get the sub attempts he had on Rogers,i was surprised. Thats when I thought maybe he was declining. Its like when Nog fought couture,all those subs that should have been the end,but he couldnt pull the trigger on em. I never was seeing Nog like that before.

 

[GOATtalks]

Fedor had plenty of top 5 and top 10 wins.Title fights don't mean squat, and you are leaving out tourneys as well.

Your contender comment is meaningless. Jones has fought plenty of randos, and don't even start about Anderson.

Unless 9 UFC champs don't count as "elite competition" lol.

Fedor fought randos between his legit fights because he fought many times a year in his heydey.

Still waiting for those 9 names