feels like roy harris has had a sad story!
- Thread starter Ahad Mohamed
- Start date
footgod
Black Belt
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2009
- Messages
- 5,500
- Reaction score
- 0
cloest I could get
As posted by Roy Harris: When I began my training at the Gracie Academy in Torrance, Royler Gracie was my first instructor. He first taught me the basic Gracie Jiu Jitsu method of self-defense. Then, we moved on into the ground techniques and tactics that we all know so well. Well, not only was I taking private lessons with Royler, I was also attending the group classes which were being taught by Rickson, Royler and Royce Gracie. This was quite the treat! I remember thinking to myself, "Wow, these Gracie guys are awesome!" That Rickson guy sure is talented. I remember watching him roll with all 24 of us in class and hardly breaking a sweat. I remember Royce doing the same thing. After my 13th private lesson, Royler Gracie said I could wear the blue belt! I thought to myself, "No way! I get to wear the blue belt? Whoa........" Well, I felt proud the first time I put it on. I also felt a bit scared because now I would have to perform like the other blue belts in class.
Well, I headed off to a group class with Royce, and as soon as I walked into the main training room, Royce said to me, "Who gave you the blue belt?" I said, "Royler." Royce had a funny look on his face when I said it. He turned and walked away from me, and my stomach turned. I thought to myself, "the least he could do was congratulate me!" Oh well, I thought. Maybe Royce was in a bad mood again. Anyway, I had a ton of fun training at the Gracie Academy. Even though I had to drive two hours and forty minutes one way to get to the academy, and even though I had to fight through the congested LA traffic on my way home, I thoroughly enjoyed my time there! I especially looked forward to training with Royler because he seemed to teach from his heart!
Well, one day I was watching a video in the reception area and Craig Kukuk walked in. He asked, "Who said you could watch that video?" I told him, "Rorion said I could." He asked, "Where did you get the video?" I said, "From Rorion's office? Rorion told me I could go into his office and get a video to watch while I was waiting." Craig snatched the video out of the VCR and told me to never go into Rorion's office again. He said, "Rorion would not want you to watch this video." I asked "Why?" He said, "Because of what is on the tape. You can watch 'Gracie Jiu Jitsu in Action Part One', but that's it. All the other tapes are off limits to you!" I thought that was kind of funny, but who was I to argue with Mr. Kukuk? He was a brown belt and I was a lowly blue belt. So, I chalked it up to experience and kept training. I never went into Rorion's office again and never watched a video on my own.
Later in my training, I found out that Royler was headed back to Brazil and that Rickson would be leaving the Academy soon. So, I was told to train with Rorion for awhile for my private lessons. I didn't have much choice, but hey, it's all Jiu Jitsu. When I started my private lessons with Rorion, I knew something was different about him. This man knew how to teach and how to make people feel good about themselves. I had a great time learning from Rorion. He taught me a lot about Jiu Jitsu. The pace was a bit slow for me, but still I learned an awful lot from him about Jiu Jitsu! Next, I was told to continue my private training with Royce. However, I ended up taking just group classes instead, and I learned a ton of stuff from Royce. He was a good teacher. However, I noticed certain things about the way he taught. For example, every now and then he would close the door to the training room, look out the window down the hall towards Rorion's office and say: "Don't tell Rorion I showed this to you, and don't do this when Rorion is around. Royce would then proceed to show us some really interesting stuff." I thought his actions were a bit peculiar, but none the less, I kept on enjoying Jiu Jitsu! Several months into my Jiu Jitsu training, a Russian Sambo player (named "Nikolay Baturin") stopped by my self-defense class at the University (of California) and asked to roll with me. I said sure. What happened next was mind blowing! I began to tap the mat like an experienced conga player. I had never felt such pain and pressure on my ankles, knees and hips before. I asked him what he was doing and he said, "Sambo." I asked him if he would mind showing me some of that stuff and he agreed.
I trained off and on with him for about the next year. During that time, my familiarity and confidence with leg locks grew and began to manifest itself. I began to tap some of the senior blue belts and newer purple belt at the academy. However, my glory ended abruptly when Rorion called me into the office one day and politely asked me to stop doing leg locks. He said they were causing hard feelings amongst the students, and, he would prefer that I not do them any more. I agreed and kept on training.
Well, one day, my friend/Sambo instructor accompanied me to a training session at the Gracie Academy. Boy was that a memorable experience. I will never forget that day. All classes ceased as Royce and Nikolay engaged in a friendly (and lengthy) grappling match, with all of the Gracie students (and Rorion) watching from the sidelines. What happened during the match was amazing!!
When I first brought Nikolay Baturin to the Gracie Academy, he was relaxed. However, things got a little tense there in the beginning. First, Nick began by stretching out in one of the private rooms at the Academy. He was not interested in going into the big training room. Suddenly, Royce walked in, introduced himself and asked Nick if he wanted to roll "right now." Nick replied, "give me about 15 minutes to warm up and then we'll grapple. Fifteen minutes came and went. Nick went into the big training room and was greeted by a ton of faces, all waiting to see him and Royce do battle.
Then, the moment we had all been waiting for, Nick and Royce started grappling from a standing position. This is where things became tense. I knew Nick was an awesome Judoka because I had done some training with him myself. Plus, I had seen Nick throw a lot of the Judo black belts in San Diego, with ease and finesse. So, to see him start standing with Royce made my heart go pitter patter!)
Anyway, within a few seconds Nick throws Royce to the ground. Not a hard throw, but a throw none the less. Royce and Nick engage in a bit of ground work and then I see Nick go for Royce's foot, really hard. He had it on real tight too. I saw Royce grimace and move faster than I had ever seen him move before. About twenty seconds later, Royce had escapes Nick's foot lock and was beginning to apply a foot lock of his own (on Nick). Now mind you, Nick does not feel any pain when the foot lock or heel hook is applied. He leg is like a frickin' titanium rod. Nick will even let you lock his leg and relax his foot. Still, he feels no pain. And that's what happened when Royce took his foot. Nick relaxed and let Royce take his foot. Finally, Royce gave up and moved on to something else. There was a number of positional exchanges between Royce and Nick. Neither person was dominating. But then about 10 minutes into the match, Royce got a collar choke on Nick. Nick squirmed and finally tapped. Royce and Nick went again. However, this time Royce knew where Nick was weak: collar chokes. So, Royce went after Nick's neck again and again. Royce repeatedly tapped Nick, again and again. Finally, the match ended.
Rorion was sitting nearby and commented on Nick's performance. Rorion said, "Nick, for someone who's never trained in Jiu Jitsu, you have really good technique. I am impressed with your skills." The group class training began and Nick participated. When it came time for mat time (randori), Nick put on a spectacular diplay of Judo! Nick threw everyone around like barbie dolls. He even did randori with just one hand. Nick was awesome. Royce was awesome! I will never forget that night. I can still see that one purple belt being thrown so high his feet nearly hit the ceiling. Rorion told Nick that if he ever wanted to train again, he was welcome at the Gracie Academy. We all shook hands after class and called it a night. (Note: I remember training with Royce the next day in class. I also remember looking down at his left foot and seeing the top of it was all black and blue. I did not say anything though cause I knew where it had come from. I too had been put in a foot lock by Nick and did not tap in time, and remember my instep being black and blue!)
ANOTHER NOTE: Nick made a major contribution to my grappling game! Without him, I would not have the leg locking skills I have. Nick, if you're reading this, I want you to know that I truly appreciate the skills you gave me regarding leg locks, especially the straight foot lock!!!! My training at the Gracie Academy continued until August of 1992. At that time, an article had been written about me in the San Diego Union and Tribune newspaper. This article caused Rorion to re-evaluate my training there. Rorion told me that it was not fair that I make money off of him by teaching Jiu Jitsu. He said I would now have to pay him $100 per class if I was going to continue training at the Academy.
VORAS <Naujienos - Apie Roy Harris>
As posted by Roy Harris: When I began my training at the Gracie Academy in Torrance, Royler Gracie was my first instructor. He first taught me the basic Gracie Jiu Jitsu method of self-defense. Then, we moved on into the ground techniques and tactics that we all know so well. Well, not only was I taking private lessons with Royler, I was also attending the group classes which were being taught by Rickson, Royler and Royce Gracie. This was quite the treat! I remember thinking to myself, "Wow, these Gracie guys are awesome!" That Rickson guy sure is talented. I remember watching him roll with all 24 of us in class and hardly breaking a sweat. I remember Royce doing the same thing. After my 13th private lesson, Royler Gracie said I could wear the blue belt! I thought to myself, "No way! I get to wear the blue belt? Whoa........" Well, I felt proud the first time I put it on. I also felt a bit scared because now I would have to perform like the other blue belts in class.
Well, I headed off to a group class with Royce, and as soon as I walked into the main training room, Royce said to me, "Who gave you the blue belt?" I said, "Royler." Royce had a funny look on his face when I said it. He turned and walked away from me, and my stomach turned. I thought to myself, "the least he could do was congratulate me!" Oh well, I thought. Maybe Royce was in a bad mood again. Anyway, I had a ton of fun training at the Gracie Academy. Even though I had to drive two hours and forty minutes one way to get to the academy, and even though I had to fight through the congested LA traffic on my way home, I thoroughly enjoyed my time there! I especially looked forward to training with Royler because he seemed to teach from his heart!
Well, one day I was watching a video in the reception area and Craig Kukuk walked in. He asked, "Who said you could watch that video?" I told him, "Rorion said I could." He asked, "Where did you get the video?" I said, "From Rorion's office? Rorion told me I could go into his office and get a video to watch while I was waiting." Craig snatched the video out of the VCR and told me to never go into Rorion's office again. He said, "Rorion would not want you to watch this video." I asked "Why?" He said, "Because of what is on the tape. You can watch 'Gracie Jiu Jitsu in Action Part One', but that's it. All the other tapes are off limits to you!" I thought that was kind of funny, but who was I to argue with Mr. Kukuk? He was a brown belt and I was a lowly blue belt. So, I chalked it up to experience and kept training. I never went into Rorion's office again and never watched a video on my own.
Later in my training, I found out that Royler was headed back to Brazil and that Rickson would be leaving the Academy soon. So, I was told to train with Rorion for awhile for my private lessons. I didn't have much choice, but hey, it's all Jiu Jitsu. When I started my private lessons with Rorion, I knew something was different about him. This man knew how to teach and how to make people feel good about themselves. I had a great time learning from Rorion. He taught me a lot about Jiu Jitsu. The pace was a bit slow for me, but still I learned an awful lot from him about Jiu Jitsu! Next, I was told to continue my private training with Royce. However, I ended up taking just group classes instead, and I learned a ton of stuff from Royce. He was a good teacher. However, I noticed certain things about the way he taught. For example, every now and then he would close the door to the training room, look out the window down the hall towards Rorion's office and say: "Don't tell Rorion I showed this to you, and don't do this when Rorion is around. Royce would then proceed to show us some really interesting stuff." I thought his actions were a bit peculiar, but none the less, I kept on enjoying Jiu Jitsu! Several months into my Jiu Jitsu training, a Russian Sambo player (named "Nikolay Baturin") stopped by my self-defense class at the University (of California) and asked to roll with me. I said sure. What happened next was mind blowing! I began to tap the mat like an experienced conga player. I had never felt such pain and pressure on my ankles, knees and hips before. I asked him what he was doing and he said, "Sambo." I asked him if he would mind showing me some of that stuff and he agreed.
I trained off and on with him for about the next year. During that time, my familiarity and confidence with leg locks grew and began to manifest itself. I began to tap some of the senior blue belts and newer purple belt at the academy. However, my glory ended abruptly when Rorion called me into the office one day and politely asked me to stop doing leg locks. He said they were causing hard feelings amongst the students, and, he would prefer that I not do them any more. I agreed and kept on training.
Well, one day, my friend/Sambo instructor accompanied me to a training session at the Gracie Academy. Boy was that a memorable experience. I will never forget that day. All classes ceased as Royce and Nikolay engaged in a friendly (and lengthy) grappling match, with all of the Gracie students (and Rorion) watching from the sidelines. What happened during the match was amazing!!
When I first brought Nikolay Baturin to the Gracie Academy, he was relaxed. However, things got a little tense there in the beginning. First, Nick began by stretching out in one of the private rooms at the Academy. He was not interested in going into the big training room. Suddenly, Royce walked in, introduced himself and asked Nick if he wanted to roll "right now." Nick replied, "give me about 15 minutes to warm up and then we'll grapple. Fifteen minutes came and went. Nick went into the big training room and was greeted by a ton of faces, all waiting to see him and Royce do battle.
Then, the moment we had all been waiting for, Nick and Royce started grappling from a standing position. This is where things became tense. I knew Nick was an awesome Judoka because I had done some training with him myself. Plus, I had seen Nick throw a lot of the Judo black belts in San Diego, with ease and finesse. So, to see him start standing with Royce made my heart go pitter patter!)
Anyway, within a few seconds Nick throws Royce to the ground. Not a hard throw, but a throw none the less. Royce and Nick engage in a bit of ground work and then I see Nick go for Royce's foot, really hard. He had it on real tight too. I saw Royce grimace and move faster than I had ever seen him move before. About twenty seconds later, Royce had escapes Nick's foot lock and was beginning to apply a foot lock of his own (on Nick). Now mind you, Nick does not feel any pain when the foot lock or heel hook is applied. He leg is like a frickin' titanium rod. Nick will even let you lock his leg and relax his foot. Still, he feels no pain. And that's what happened when Royce took his foot. Nick relaxed and let Royce take his foot. Finally, Royce gave up and moved on to something else. There was a number of positional exchanges between Royce and Nick. Neither person was dominating. But then about 10 minutes into the match, Royce got a collar choke on Nick. Nick squirmed and finally tapped. Royce and Nick went again. However, this time Royce knew where Nick was weak: collar chokes. So, Royce went after Nick's neck again and again. Royce repeatedly tapped Nick, again and again. Finally, the match ended.
Rorion was sitting nearby and commented on Nick's performance. Rorion said, "Nick, for someone who's never trained in Jiu Jitsu, you have really good technique. I am impressed with your skills." The group class training began and Nick participated. When it came time for mat time (randori), Nick put on a spectacular diplay of Judo! Nick threw everyone around like barbie dolls. He even did randori with just one hand. Nick was awesome. Royce was awesome! I will never forget that night. I can still see that one purple belt being thrown so high his feet nearly hit the ceiling. Rorion told Nick that if he ever wanted to train again, he was welcome at the Gracie Academy. We all shook hands after class and called it a night. (Note: I remember training with Royce the next day in class. I also remember looking down at his left foot and seeing the top of it was all black and blue. I did not say anything though cause I knew where it had come from. I too had been put in a foot lock by Nick and did not tap in time, and remember my instep being black and blue!)
ANOTHER NOTE: Nick made a major contribution to my grappling game! Without him, I would not have the leg locking skills I have. Nick, if you're reading this, I want you to know that I truly appreciate the skills you gave me regarding leg locks, especially the straight foot lock!!!! My training at the Gracie Academy continued until August of 1992. At that time, an article had been written about me in the San Diego Union and Tribune newspaper. This article caused Rorion to re-evaluate my training there. Rorion told me that it was not fair that I make money off of him by teaching Jiu Jitsu. He said I would now have to pay him $100 per class if I was going to continue training at the Academy.
VORAS <Naujienos - Apie Roy Harris>
footgod
Black Belt
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2009
- Messages
- 5,500
- Reaction score
- 0
I told Rorion the following: "I told you (Rorion) about the self-defense class I taught at the University on several occasions. I even asked you if it was all right if I taught the students a few Gracie Jiu Jitsu techniques. You said it was OK as long as I didn't wear a Gracie Jiu Jitsu shirt while teaching." "I also told you (Rorion) that I make $60 a month teaching my self-defense, and that I would give you $30 of it because you were my instructor." I also said, "Rorion, I am paying $240 a month to train with you and your brothers (not to mention the driving time, the gas and the headache of dealing with LA traffic). I have done all of this for almost two years now. Doesn't that show you the kind of loyalty I have for you and your brothers?"
To this Rorion replied, "I am sorry my friend. But this is my final offer." I said, "Rorion, paying $100 per class would mean I would be paying $1400 a month to continue my training with you. I don't have that kind of money." He said, "I am sorry."
So, I shook his hand and left the Academy for the last time. That was a very sad day in my martial arts training experience! I was heart broken after that incident. I had dumped my soul into that Academy (not to mention my loyalty to Rorion and Royce) and now I was being treated like a number.
However, the story doesn't end there. What I was about to experience next really caught me off guard!
P.S. Rorion, if you are reading this, I hope you know you hurt me a lot on that day. I had put a lot of trust into you, your brothers and your academy, and because you allowed money to come between us, I felt like my loyatly to you meant nothing, and that really hurt! I thought I was your friend because you called me your friend.
P.S.S. Royce, if you area reading this I want you to know that I truly respected you as my teacher and thorughly enjoyed learning from you. I sent you several e-mails telling you this. However, you never responded to me.
Rorion and Royce, I wish things would have turned out different. I wish we could have remained friends over the years. However, both of you made choices (and said things) that severely impacted my life, and because of it I am now training with Professor Moreira, and my loyalty lies with him. He has my greatest respect and loyalty, something you both had, but discarded. Maybe you can learn something from my pain. If not, that's OK.
I wish both of you continued success in all your endeavors!)
Over the next year, I trained with the likes of Rickson Gracie, the Machado brothers and Nelson Monteiro. It was interesting to train with each of them. They each had their own way of doing things. However, as I trained with each of the above mention instructor, certain issues came up and I was politely told that I was not welcome to train with them any more. That's when I found Joe Moreira.
Later on in my training, I began to hear rumors. Rumors that I was doing drugs. Rumors that I was a greedy person who was only in it for the money. Rumors that I was not a good student because I did not pay attention in class. Rumors that I didn't pay my dues. I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. I found out about many of these rumors through prospective students, friends, and seminar hosts.
I remember teaching a seminar in Washington, D.C. several years ago and a person walked up to me and introduced himself (Let's call him "Alex"). To make a long story short, Alex told me that he had been called by this certain Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instructor. This certain BJJ instructor told him that I was not qualified to teach what I was teaching. This same BJJ instructor said he wanted Alex to spy on me and listen to anything I said that might be falsified, exaggerated, or untrue, and report back to him.
I asked Alex, "Do you know, or have you ever met this certain BJJ instructor?" Alex said, "No, I don't know him. I've heard of him before, but I've never met nor spoken with him in person or by e-mail. Can you believe that?
Here's another one for you: I remember a certain seminar host asking me if I did drugs. I told him that I do not do drugs and have never done them. To this he replied, "Well, I've heard different." You should have seen the look on my face. A part of me was really hurt. Another part of me was very mad. I couldn't believe what was being said about me behind my back.
To this Rorion replied, "I am sorry my friend. But this is my final offer." I said, "Rorion, paying $100 per class would mean I would be paying $1400 a month to continue my training with you. I don't have that kind of money." He said, "I am sorry."
So, I shook his hand and left the Academy for the last time. That was a very sad day in my martial arts training experience! I was heart broken after that incident. I had dumped my soul into that Academy (not to mention my loyalty to Rorion and Royce) and now I was being treated like a number.
However, the story doesn't end there. What I was about to experience next really caught me off guard!
P.S. Rorion, if you are reading this, I hope you know you hurt me a lot on that day. I had put a lot of trust into you, your brothers and your academy, and because you allowed money to come between us, I felt like my loyatly to you meant nothing, and that really hurt! I thought I was your friend because you called me your friend.
P.S.S. Royce, if you area reading this I want you to know that I truly respected you as my teacher and thorughly enjoyed learning from you. I sent you several e-mails telling you this. However, you never responded to me.
Rorion and Royce, I wish things would have turned out different. I wish we could have remained friends over the years. However, both of you made choices (and said things) that severely impacted my life, and because of it I am now training with Professor Moreira, and my loyalty lies with him. He has my greatest respect and loyalty, something you both had, but discarded. Maybe you can learn something from my pain. If not, that's OK.
I wish both of you continued success in all your endeavors!)
Over the next year, I trained with the likes of Rickson Gracie, the Machado brothers and Nelson Monteiro. It was interesting to train with each of them. They each had their own way of doing things. However, as I trained with each of the above mention instructor, certain issues came up and I was politely told that I was not welcome to train with them any more. That's when I found Joe Moreira.
Later on in my training, I began to hear rumors. Rumors that I was doing drugs. Rumors that I was a greedy person who was only in it for the money. Rumors that I was not a good student because I did not pay attention in class. Rumors that I didn't pay my dues. I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea. I found out about many of these rumors through prospective students, friends, and seminar hosts.
I remember teaching a seminar in Washington, D.C. several years ago and a person walked up to me and introduced himself (Let's call him "Alex"). To make a long story short, Alex told me that he had been called by this certain Brazilian Jiu Jitsu instructor. This certain BJJ instructor told him that I was not qualified to teach what I was teaching. This same BJJ instructor said he wanted Alex to spy on me and listen to anything I said that might be falsified, exaggerated, or untrue, and report back to him.
I asked Alex, "Do you know, or have you ever met this certain BJJ instructor?" Alex said, "No, I don't know him. I've heard of him before, but I've never met nor spoken with him in person or by e-mail. Can you believe that?
Here's another one for you: I remember a certain seminar host asking me if I did drugs. I told him that I do not do drugs and have never done them. To this he replied, "Well, I've heard different." You should have seen the look on my face. A part of me was really hurt. Another part of me was very mad. I couldn't believe what was being said about me behind my back.
footgod
Black Belt
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2009
- Messages
- 5,500
- Reaction score
- 0
I remember talking to a seminar host about the lack of attendance at his seminar. He told me that he had heard through the grapevine that people did not want to attend my seminar because:
A. They trained only "pure Helio Gracie Jiu Jitsu."
B. Many had heard that I was not that good of an instructor.
C. I should not be teaching a seminar in this part of the country because only instructor "so and so" teaches here.
After a year of this, I grew weary of the politics of Jiu Jitsu. However, I was fortunate to find Professor Joe Moreira in Newport Beach in the spring of 1993. He ran me through the hoops because he too had heard bad things about me. As a matter of fact, he called me in to his office to talk to me about what happened between the Gracie's, the Machado's, Nelson Monteiro and I.
He told me what the Gracie's, the Machado's and Nelson Monteiro had told him, and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I asked him if I could continue training with him and he said "yes." A month later, he called me into his office again to chat with me about my problems with the other guys. We talked about everything. I laid my heart out on the table. I figured, "if this guy kicks me out, I'm through with Jiu Jitsu. I don't care how effective it is." Fortunately for me, Joe was very understanding and helpful. He told me that I was now a member of his team and what had happened in the past was water under the bridge. After that meeting, Joe and I developed a great student/instructor relationship, as well as a great friendship!
Over the next eight years, Joe and I would train together and have so much fun doing so! He even asked me to help him prepare for his UFC fights. Unfortunately, he got hurt before his fight with Varelans. I told him he shouldn't fight because of his injury. However, he still chose to fight, and as a result, could not give his best performance against the 380 pounder.
On one hand, I am glad things turned out the way they did. On the other, I feel bad that things turned out the way they did with the other instructors. All of them were talented grapplers who could teach up a storm when they wanted to. Somehow, a part of me wishes I could mend those relationships, but I know it's not possible. However, I am glad I finally found an instructor who has taught me from his heart!
Professor Moreira promoted me to purple belt in 1994, brown belt in 1996, first degree black belt in 1998 and second degree black belt in 2001. I look forward to my continued training with Professor Moreira! In 1998, I started teaching seminars on a full time basis. Up until that point in time, I had only done a few here and there. Now, three years later, I am in full swing! I travel to Europe about five times a year and have a lot of fun teaching over there! The seminar hosts in Switzerland, Italy, Germany, Poland, Slovakia and the UK (England) have treated me like a king. Plus, the scenery there is so different than the US. Who would have thought that I would be doing this for a living?
Plus, now I am headed off to Shanghai, China at the end of this month, and possibly Beijing, China next year! Who would have thought I would be teaching a seminar in China? Plus, there's talk of a seminar next year in Australia, as well as my home town of Duluth, Minnesota! Whoo-hoo!!! I'm living a dream! In my next segment, I will discuss my Jeet Kune Do and Filipino Martial Arts training, and their influence on my BJJ training! I will also share with you a few interesting stories from my travels abroad!).
Roy posted this on another forum:
You asked, "Why and what happened to the machado's and rickson?"
Well, I was told that I was not welcome to train with them any more!
With Rickson, it was a matter of respect.
One day, Rickson and I were talking in his office. I told him I was taking private lessons with Nelson Monteiro. Right in the middle of my sentence, he got up out of his chair and walked out of his office. He never spoke to me again.
I kept calling him to set up a private lesson but he never returned my calls any more.
When I showed up at his school, Luis Heredia (sp?) told me that I had disrespected Rickson by telling him that I was taking private lessons from someone else. I told Luis, "I have to travel 90 minutes to train with Rickson and pay $140 an hour. Nelson Monteiro lives five minutes from my house and only charges $40 an hour. It's quite simple. I can only afford to train with Rickson once a month because of time and money. I meant no disrespect to him, I was just being honest with him."
To this Luis replied, "I know. However, Rickson does not want to train you any more. I am sorry my friend." (By the way, I told Nelson Monteiro that I was taking private lesson with Rickson and he told me that he did not mind.)
I was asked to leave the Machado's because John Machado accused me of being a traitor.
You see, the Machado's had lost to my Russian friend Nikolay Baturin in a Sambo match, and they blamed me for their loss. After the tournament, I called the Machado school on several occasions to set up my next private lesson with Rigan. However, no one returned my call. I even drove up to the school to talk to them in person. When I did, John Machado met me at the door and said, "What are your doing here?" I told him that I wanted to set up my next private lesson.
John told me to come back next Saturday because he and his brothers wanted to talk with me about something very important. So, the next Saturday, I drove all the way up to Redondo Beach from San Diego (two hours and twenty five minutes) to speak with the Machado brothers. When I arrived, John Machado was locking up the school. I walked up to him and said, "Hey John."
Again, John asked me what I was doing there at their school and I reminded him of our appointment.
John Machado then told me the following: "My brothers and I have decided that you are no longer welcome to train at our school. We have decided this because you are waiving two flags. You trained your friend Nick with the Jiu Jitsu we taught you, and now you want to continue your training with us. Well, in Brazil we call it waiving two flags: a traitor! You are not welcome to train here any longer."
I told John, "I had not trained Nick because I had not seen him in about a year. And besides, Nick could make me tap left and right. I had nothing to teach him." To this, John replied, "The only way Nick could have beaten us was because you taught him Jiu Jitsu."
Now, I knew who was teaching Nick Jiu Jitsu. It was one of their own purple belts. However, it was not my place to jeopardize this guys training to get myself out of a sticky situation. And besides, if the Machado's did not believe me, I did not want to train with them anyway. I believe loyalty goes two ways: student to instructor AND instructor to student. I believe what they say, and they should believe what I say! Period!!!!
I asked John if there was anything I could do or say to change his mind or his brothers and he said, "No. We've already made up our minds."
So, I walked away and never returned.
Now you know!
For all of you reading this thread, I need to interject something here:
My purpose in writing all of this is NOT to say how bad the other instructors are NOR how good I am. I do not consider myself better than any of them!
My purpose is simple: after all these years, I wanted to clear the air! Many rumors have flown around the globe about me and I just wanted people to know what happened to me during the beginning years and why certain rumors may have been started.
Too often, when negative information is disseminated on a public forum, people jump on the band wagon and begin taking sides. For example, since I've written about what has happened to me, I have been very careful not to mention certain things or certain names. However, some people chose to zero in on the missing info and ask what happened. Plus, Bolo has chosen to "try and help me out by telling the rest of the story." Well, I never meant for every little detail (nor all of the involved parties) to be out in the open. I just wanted to tell a few stories about why I ended up training with different instructors. Because of my involvement in the intelligence industry, I have found that the way the story is told determines how people react to it. If any exaggerations are placed in the story or details are left out, people can get the wrong idea. For example, Bolo said, "The Machados were consistently losing to Nick in sambo competitions. " Well, that's not quite true. The Machados fought against Nick twice and lost. In my book, that's a bit different from implying they were "consistently losing" to Nick.
Bolo also said, "They (the Machados) did not like the fact that they were losing to our friend and accused us of teaching Nick BJJ techniques to beat them." That too is not quite true. John Machado accused "ME" of teaching Nick Jiu Jitsu. Bolo was no where around when this happened.
All of these incidents (at the Gracie Academy, with Rickson and with the Machados) happened to me, directly. Yes, Bolo was a student of mine at the time, and yes, Bolo was guilty because of his association with me. However, the instructors made their choice to not allow me to train with them. The only person who verbally stated that Bolo (Mike Jen) could not train with them was Rorion Gracie. Rorion said this because Bolo was a regular student at the Academy and because Rorion knew that Bolo assisted me in my self-defense classes. However, Bolo was not a regular student of the Machados nor Rickson.
A. They trained only "pure Helio Gracie Jiu Jitsu."
B. Many had heard that I was not that good of an instructor.
C. I should not be teaching a seminar in this part of the country because only instructor "so and so" teaches here.
After a year of this, I grew weary of the politics of Jiu Jitsu. However, I was fortunate to find Professor Joe Moreira in Newport Beach in the spring of 1993. He ran me through the hoops because he too had heard bad things about me. As a matter of fact, he called me in to his office to talk to me about what happened between the Gracie's, the Machado's, Nelson Monteiro and I.
He told me what the Gracie's, the Machado's and Nelson Monteiro had told him, and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I asked him if I could continue training with him and he said "yes." A month later, he called me into his office again to chat with me about my problems with the other guys. We talked about everything. I laid my heart out on the table. I figured, "if this guy kicks me out, I'm through with Jiu Jitsu. I don't care how effective it is." Fortunately for me, Joe was very understanding and helpful. He told me that I was now a member of his team and what had happened in the past was water under the bridge. After that meeting, Joe and I developed a great student/instructor relationship, as well as a great friendship!
Over the next eight years, Joe and I would train together and have so much fun doing so! He even asked me to help him prepare for his UFC fights. Unfortunately, he got hurt before his fight with Varelans. I told him he shouldn't fight because of his injury. However, he still chose to fight, and as a result, could not give his best performance against the 380 pounder.
On one hand, I am glad things turned out the way they did. On the other, I feel bad that things turned out the way they did with the other instructors. All of them were talented grapplers who could teach up a storm when they wanted to. Somehow, a part of me wishes I could mend those relationships, but I know it's not possible. However, I am glad I finally found an instructor who has taught me from his heart!
Professor Moreira promoted me to purple belt in 1994, brown belt in 1996, first degree black belt in 1998 and second degree black belt in 2001. I look forward to my continued training with Professor Moreira! In 1998, I started teaching seminars on a full time basis. Up until that point in time, I had only done a few here and there. Now, three years later, I am in full swing! I travel to Europe about five times a year and have a lot of fun teaching over there! The seminar hosts in Switzerland, Italy, Germany, Poland, Slovakia and the UK (England) have treated me like a king. Plus, the scenery there is so different than the US. Who would have thought that I would be doing this for a living?
Plus, now I am headed off to Shanghai, China at the end of this month, and possibly Beijing, China next year! Who would have thought I would be teaching a seminar in China? Plus, there's talk of a seminar next year in Australia, as well as my home town of Duluth, Minnesota! Whoo-hoo!!! I'm living a dream! In my next segment, I will discuss my Jeet Kune Do and Filipino Martial Arts training, and their influence on my BJJ training! I will also share with you a few interesting stories from my travels abroad!).
Roy posted this on another forum:
You asked, "Why and what happened to the machado's and rickson?"
Well, I was told that I was not welcome to train with them any more!
With Rickson, it was a matter of respect.
One day, Rickson and I were talking in his office. I told him I was taking private lessons with Nelson Monteiro. Right in the middle of my sentence, he got up out of his chair and walked out of his office. He never spoke to me again.
I kept calling him to set up a private lesson but he never returned my calls any more.
When I showed up at his school, Luis Heredia (sp?) told me that I had disrespected Rickson by telling him that I was taking private lessons from someone else. I told Luis, "I have to travel 90 minutes to train with Rickson and pay $140 an hour. Nelson Monteiro lives five minutes from my house and only charges $40 an hour. It's quite simple. I can only afford to train with Rickson once a month because of time and money. I meant no disrespect to him, I was just being honest with him."
To this Luis replied, "I know. However, Rickson does not want to train you any more. I am sorry my friend." (By the way, I told Nelson Monteiro that I was taking private lesson with Rickson and he told me that he did not mind.)
I was asked to leave the Machado's because John Machado accused me of being a traitor.
You see, the Machado's had lost to my Russian friend Nikolay Baturin in a Sambo match, and they blamed me for their loss. After the tournament, I called the Machado school on several occasions to set up my next private lesson with Rigan. However, no one returned my call. I even drove up to the school to talk to them in person. When I did, John Machado met me at the door and said, "What are your doing here?" I told him that I wanted to set up my next private lesson.
John told me to come back next Saturday because he and his brothers wanted to talk with me about something very important. So, the next Saturday, I drove all the way up to Redondo Beach from San Diego (two hours and twenty five minutes) to speak with the Machado brothers. When I arrived, John Machado was locking up the school. I walked up to him and said, "Hey John."
Again, John asked me what I was doing there at their school and I reminded him of our appointment.
John Machado then told me the following: "My brothers and I have decided that you are no longer welcome to train at our school. We have decided this because you are waiving two flags. You trained your friend Nick with the Jiu Jitsu we taught you, and now you want to continue your training with us. Well, in Brazil we call it waiving two flags: a traitor! You are not welcome to train here any longer."
I told John, "I had not trained Nick because I had not seen him in about a year. And besides, Nick could make me tap left and right. I had nothing to teach him." To this, John replied, "The only way Nick could have beaten us was because you taught him Jiu Jitsu."
Now, I knew who was teaching Nick Jiu Jitsu. It was one of their own purple belts. However, it was not my place to jeopardize this guys training to get myself out of a sticky situation. And besides, if the Machado's did not believe me, I did not want to train with them anyway. I believe loyalty goes two ways: student to instructor AND instructor to student. I believe what they say, and they should believe what I say! Period!!!!
I asked John if there was anything I could do or say to change his mind or his brothers and he said, "No. We've already made up our minds."
So, I walked away and never returned.
Now you know!
For all of you reading this thread, I need to interject something here:
My purpose in writing all of this is NOT to say how bad the other instructors are NOR how good I am. I do not consider myself better than any of them!
My purpose is simple: after all these years, I wanted to clear the air! Many rumors have flown around the globe about me and I just wanted people to know what happened to me during the beginning years and why certain rumors may have been started.
Too often, when negative information is disseminated on a public forum, people jump on the band wagon and begin taking sides. For example, since I've written about what has happened to me, I have been very careful not to mention certain things or certain names. However, some people chose to zero in on the missing info and ask what happened. Plus, Bolo has chosen to "try and help me out by telling the rest of the story." Well, I never meant for every little detail (nor all of the involved parties) to be out in the open. I just wanted to tell a few stories about why I ended up training with different instructors. Because of my involvement in the intelligence industry, I have found that the way the story is told determines how people react to it. If any exaggerations are placed in the story or details are left out, people can get the wrong idea. For example, Bolo said, "The Machados were consistently losing to Nick in sambo competitions. " Well, that's not quite true. The Machados fought against Nick twice and lost. In my book, that's a bit different from implying they were "consistently losing" to Nick.
Bolo also said, "They (the Machados) did not like the fact that they were losing to our friend and accused us of teaching Nick BJJ techniques to beat them." That too is not quite true. John Machado accused "ME" of teaching Nick Jiu Jitsu. Bolo was no where around when this happened.
All of these incidents (at the Gracie Academy, with Rickson and with the Machados) happened to me, directly. Yes, Bolo was a student of mine at the time, and yes, Bolo was guilty because of his association with me. However, the instructors made their choice to not allow me to train with them. The only person who verbally stated that Bolo (Mike Jen) could not train with them was Rorion Gracie. Rorion said this because Bolo was a regular student at the Academy and because Rorion knew that Bolo assisted me in my self-defense classes. However, Bolo was not a regular student of the Machados nor Rickson.
footgod
Black Belt
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2009
- Messages
- 5,500
- Reaction score
- 0
Now, with regard to the rest of the "negative" stories (or for that matter, "more details"), I am finished focusing on the negative. I request that all of you refrain from asking ( or adding) more details about what happened with this instructor or that instructor. I do not want this thread to turn into a bashing thread, or a thread "that implies" I am bashing other instructors. My goal in writing this thread was to share information with all of you about my beginnings.
From now on, I would like this post to focus on the positive and the funny!
Thanks,
Roy Harris
From now on, I would like this post to focus on the positive and the funny!
Thanks,
Roy Harris
Thanks. I also found this:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/my-journey-through-bjj-roy-harris-344665/
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/my-journey-through-bjj-roy-harris-344665/
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 6,378
- Reaction score
- 0
Interesting stuff...
I want to hear more about this Sambo guy. Sounds like a friggin beast!
I want to hear more about this Sambo guy. Sounds like a friggin beast!
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2010
- Messages
- 4,231
- Reaction score
- 2,073
I guess this whole thing answers my question about Harris' lineage. White to blue from the Gracies, Purple to Black from Moreira.
01/91 to 1994 White to Purple
1996 Brown
1998 Black
2001 2nd Black
Is that normal progression?
01/91 to 1994 White to Purple
1996 Brown
1998 Black
2001 2nd Black
Is that normal progression?
Yeah pretty much.
footgod
Black Belt
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2009
- Messages
- 5,500
- Reaction score
- 0
nice find
