feels like roy harris has had a sad story!

man..the pioneers of bjj ditch him..its really is a sad story.
 
That is the most informative and most well written BJJ article I have ever read and I believe EVERY word of it!! We have all heard stories about the Gracie's arrogance and how they feel about training outside of their academies....this philosophy is even passed down to their students who go on to open schools.

Awesome read!!
 
I don't know.

He managed to piss off like three or four independant jiu jitsu entities for things "that weren't his fault"

No ones luck is that bad. I think there is more to this story.
 
Old ... but good. I think alot of the misunderstandings were rooted in cultural differences and economic uncertainty as far as anyone knowing just how big this was gonna get and how long it would last.

The BJJ "names" back then were trying to secure their fortunes long term. I bet they've moderated their stances somewhat nowadays.

I don't doubt one word Roy wrote in that article. He's very intelligent and thoughtful. He worded that thing carefully and respectfully as he could while retaining the essential facts.

I've posted on his forum, here and on OTM's forum with him and he's probably the most ethical guy I've met online .... besides myself of course.
 
Calibur said:
I don't know.

He managed to piss off like three or four independant jiu jitsu entities for things "that weren't his fault"

No ones luck is that bad. I think there is more to this story.
Click to expand...

I don't think so...

Think about it, if you ran a business with your brothers, cousins, father, etc. and you felt one of your business partners betrayed you....wouldn't you expect the rest of your family write him off too? Or would you allow the rest of your family to continue to work with him?

I believe every word of this story bc this is exactly what is is happening in a Gracie affliated school right now. An instructor is kicking students out of his school for training with another BJJ instructor. And I am speaking from experiences that I have witnessed or seen first hand. I don't want to bring drama to this thread by getting specific but this seems to be the Gracie way.

The Chinese and Japanese did this as well. Bruce Lee was outcasted for teaching Asian martial arts to Americans. Many consider martial arts to be secret. I dont entirely blame the Gracies though either. Their ancestor (for the most part) started this art so they feel that it is theirs, so I kinda see where they are coming from. However, those days are long gone....bc people have improved upon their art.
 
We haven't heard/read the gracies side of this story though.. all this "heart breaking" shit is a bit gay to be honest, but it seems like he had a rotten deal. that's the gracies for you
 
It's funny but it's EXACTLY how the Koreans did in the TKD boom ... the parellels are uncanny. The truth is ugly.

Money brings out the worst in people.
 
I have to agree with Calibur. There is usually two sides to a story, and we've heard Roy's side only. Kind of odd to me that he got on the bad side of all those guys. But Roy seems like an honorable guy in any case.
 
I've trained at Roy's here in San Diego and I have to say that the guy is one of the quietest, nicest, most well spoken guys around (and a monster on the mat to boot!) In truth he didn't really piss off "all those guys." He just upset one...who told the others...who then told even more people. The BJJ community was very clan based back then (more so than today I think) so if Royce got a hang nail and though it was your fault then Rickson would know about it, the Machado's would know about it, etc.

I thought Roy's version still expressed the respect that he had for all those people and he was more upset about the fact that it had to happen at all and what that said about the BJJ community at the time. You must also remember that Roy isn't the only one with a story like this about the Gracie camp. He's just the one with the longest, most well written, story about the Gracie camp. The story we've all come to know and point to when this topic comes up. Love it or hate it there is a lot of politics involved, even today. Hell, how many stories have you heard about the infighting between different Gracies?! I don't for a second doubt what Roy wrote but I also still have an enormous respect for the Gracies and what they've done over the past 80 years.
 
Ninjamurf said:
I've trained at Roy's here in San Diego and I have to say that the guy is one of the quietest, nicest, most well spoken guys around (and a monster on the mat to boot!) In truth he didn't really piss off "all those guys." He just upset one...who told the others...who then told even more people. The BJJ community was very clan based back then (more so than today I think) so if Royce got a hang nail and though it was your fault then Rickson would know about it, the Machado's would know about it, etc.

I thought Roy's version still expressed the respect that he had for all those people and he was more upset about the fact that it had to happen at all and what that said about the BJJ community at the time. You must also remember that Roy isn't the only one with a story like this about the Gracie camp. He's just the one with the longest, most well written, story about the Gracie camp. The story we've all come to know and point to when this topic comes up. Love it or hate it there is a lot of politics involved, even today. Hell, how many stories have you heard about the infighting between different Gracies?! I don't for a second doubt what Roy wrote but I also still have an enormous respect for the Gracies and what they've done over the past 80 years.
Click to expand...

Very well said!

I have train with Roy on several occations and i have nothing but good things to say about him! Great guy, and as you said a BEAST on the mat!

As you said, Roy's story is simply that his story...his experience with those individuals. Also as you said, due to the tightness of the Gracie family back than, if something happened with one dude, suddenly everyone hated you!

And Roy's story was just a telling of his experiences. People had asked about it so he spoke about it (for more on that see my other post in a similar thread just a few days ago). He was not name calling or anything like that. He was simply giving his account of the situations!

And as i have also said...
Roy still speaks extremely highly of all of the Gracies and Machados despite his previous interactions with them. He seems to subscribe to the notion that it is water under the bridge, and he has moved on with his life...

Anyway Roy is a great guy...and anyone that gets a chance to train with him i would highly recommend it!
 
i have read that at least ten times and never tire of reading it, great stuff!
 
Trickster said:
I don't think so...

Think about it, if you ran a business with your brothers, cousins, father, etc. and you felt one of your business partners betrayed you....wouldn't you expect the rest of your family write him off too? Or would you allow the rest of your family to continue to work with him?

I believe every word of this story bc this is exactly what is is happening in a Gracie affliated school right now. An instructor is kicking students out of his school for training with another BJJ instructor. And I am speaking from experiences that I have witnessed or seen first hand. I don't want to bring drama to this thread by getting specific but this seems to be the Gracie way.

The Chinese and Japanese did this as well. Bruce Lee was outcasted for teaching Asian martial arts to Americans. Many consider martial arts to be secret. I dont entirely blame the Gracies though either. Their ancestor (for the most part) started this art so they feel that it is theirs, so I kinda see where they are coming from. However, those days are long gone....bc people have improved upon their art.
Click to expand...

Every BJJ school can trace their lineage to a Gracie family member. Being a Gracie or a student of the Gracies doesn't make you clannish or arrogant. Being a Gracie affiliate likewise does not make you clannish or arrogant. It just isn't a causal relationship between studying under a Gracie and kicking people out. I left a Pedro Sauer affiliate because I grew tired of the politics. I currently train at a Team Balance affiliate, which itself is a Relson Gracie academy. I think we are cool guys. The point is that you being a Gracie or not doesn't say anything about your character. It is unfair of you to judge them all for the actions of a few. Or even the current crop for actions that happened a decade ago. Like others have said, people change and they could have mellowed out as they grew older and wiser.
 
So Rickson was only charging $140 for privates back then...looks like I started a bit late:icon_cry2
 
Frodo said:
Every BJJ school can trace their lineage to a Gracie family member. Being a Gracie or a student of the Gracies doesn't make you clannish or arrogant. Being a Gracie affiliate likewise does not make you clannish or arrogant. It just isn't a causal relationship between studying under a Gracie and kicking people out. I left a Pedro Sauer affiliate because I grew tired of the politics. I currently train at a Team Balance affiliate, which itself is a Relson Gracie academy. I think we are cool guys. The point is that you being a Gracie or not doesn't say anything about your character. It is unfair of you to judge them all for the actions of a few. Or even the current crop for actions that happened a decade ago. Like others have said, people change and they could have mellowed out as they grew older and wiser.
Click to expand...

So are you saying everyone is a Gracie in someway shape or form?
 
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