Fedor's bottom game

[JustOnce]

I love Fedor as a fighter and as a person and think he's the GOAT. But, it just struck me how inactive he is once someone passes his guard, which doesn't seem to be hardest thing to do. Once someone gets to half guard or to side mount, which he doesn't seem to try to prevent from happening, he doesn't seem like he's trying much at all to prevent mount after that. He does have a great armbar from the guard, but haven't done much against legit black belts with that either.

Someone suggested maybe Fedor doesn't know how to shrimp when, I think, Fedor got beat the crap out of in a Big-foot fight, which I believe was a tie or with Bigfoot one point ahead going into the round third, pointing to the possibility that perhaps it's because of his Sambo background, because throughout the MMA history, it doesn't really look like Sambo guys are really all that great, of course with some exceptions, when they end up at bottom against BJJ guys.

However, Fedor's Judo credentials are pretty top notch. They pass off DHK, Karo, Sojoukou as top Judokas, but Fedor's was likely better. Perhaps not as good as Akiyama, Yoshida, Nastula, Ishii, the original Dong, Takimoto, because these guys have been at the very very top in the world at one point or another.

I guess, really, if you think about it, those guys aren't really that much better than Fedor when they end up at bottom against skilled grapplers, which frankly doesn't happen all that frequently. I guess they don't have that movement at the bottom that lot of bJJ guys possesses.

But, Fedor doesn't really seem to care if someone passes his guard, or side mount, even mount, he doesn't really seem to TRY at all. What's with that?

GOAT.

 

[JustOnce]

I don't know why he doesn't give a fuck if someone advances from his half guard to side mount, it's as if he doesn't give a fuck if they advance from half guard to side mount.

 

[GAR]

Later in his career I agree, he just didnt seem like he wanted to fight anymore, he was trying to finish guys too quickly just to get it over with, thats where he became a wild striker, before he was patient and would pick his shots. He said in an interview he was trying to finish guys to get out of there as fast as possible.

 

[HHJ]

Well if you look at his career,most people couldnt get on top of him,he didnt have to worry about it much. When Coleman mounted him he switched to his back to bait the guy into going for submissions,cos he was very comfortable in defending those,as opposed to getting hit,and taking damage...or he just explodes out. In sambo,being on your back is not a favorable position,so hed rather give you his back to get back to his feet somehow,and it def worked in the past. I think Bigfoot was just too big for him to buck off. He was trapped.

 

[Merman]

Take him down, mount him and see!

 

[JustOnce]

But thing is, I think lot of Fedor's success was largely due to his Judo though which he exceled greatly in. Someone said on sherdog when someone's third best in Russia, they are one heck of a Judoka, and Fedor's Judo is probably world class in its own rights, of course a step below guys like Yoshida, Akiyama, Pastewla, and etc.

 

[milenss]

Yeah. In his prime he was destroying guys from guard with armbars. He fought high-caliber judokas, BJJ guys, wrestlers... He didn't seem to have too much troubles. But age caught up with him and he started to show signs of regress (which is pretty common for fighters at the end of their career in fact). You have to keep in mind that Bigfoot and Hendo were on TRT, which is a huge boost. I've been sparring with guys who take "something" and I can really tell who takes and who doesn't. It makes a difference.

 

[HHJ]

But thing is, I think lot of Fedor's success was largely due to his Judo though which he exceled greatly in. Someone said on sherdog when someone's third best in Russia, they are one heck of a Judoka, and Fedor's Judo is probably world class in its own rights, of course a step below guys like Yoshida, Akiyama, Pastewla, and etc.

He defintiley was more effective at using it than they were. Youd see guys just touch him and theyd go flying,and it didnt seem to make any sense how he could do that to such huge guys.

 

[Prince Nephilim]

Don't get this at all, Fedor had some unreal reversals. His bottom game was very patient. He never tries to squeal his way out, he waits then springs to life catching his opponents off guard. His approach was very composed.

 

[MilesAbove]

He's a power-bottom.


Also, you're talking about old-man Fedor. Not that we got to see a lot of it when he was younger, but he was often sudden and explosive when on his back and did not have guard.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Fedor's bottom bitch?

I guess maybe Brett Rogers after he knocked his head off. I dunno. Sylvia?

 

[FlyingKimurabar]

It was extremely explosive and powerful, but probably not the most technical. Kinda like Ronda honestly. Great at armbars and sweeps, but probably wasn't as complete from side control/mount like most elite bjj guys are. Mostly due to training only in Sambo and not training with any elite ground guys.

 

[kikikhan]

I love Fedor as a fighter and as a person and think he's the GOAT. But, it just struck me how inactive he is once someone passes his guard, which doesn't seem to be hardest thing to do. Once someone gets to half guard or to side mount, which he doesn't seem to try to prevent from happening, he doesn't seem like he's trying much at all to prevent mount after that. He does have a great armbar from the guard, but haven't done much against legit black belts with that either.

Someone suggested maybe Fedor doesn't know how to shrimp when, I think, Fedor got beat the crap out of in a Big-foot fight, which I believe was a tie or with Bigfoot one point ahead going into the round third, pointing to the possibility that perhaps it's because of his Sambo background, because throughout the MMA history, it doesn't really look like Sambo guys are really all that great, of course with some exceptions, when they end up at bottom against BJJ guys.

However, Fedor's Judo credentials are pretty top notch. They pass off DHK, Karo, Sojoukou as top Judokas, but Fedor's was likely better. Perhaps not as good as Akiyama, Yoshida, Nastula, Ishii, the original Dong, Takimoto, because these guys have been at the very very top in the world at one point or another.

I guess, really, if you think about it, those guys aren't really that much better than Fedor when they end up at bottom against skilled grapplers, which frankly doesn't happen all that frequently. I guess they don't have that movement at the bottom that lot of bJJ guys possesses.

But, Fedor doesn't really seem to care if someone passes his guard, or side mount, even mount, he doesn't really seem to TRY at all. What's with that?

GOAT.

Because he was conserving energy. He didn't want to force anything, but waited for openings. He messed up by letting Big Foot mount him, but he f*cking survived that, I don't think anyone else could have. No one mentions this.

He thaught how to frustrate the guy on top of you and tire him out and use every little movement he does to upset his ballance and throw him off.

His bottom game was not bad, just different and tricky.

 

[joeyjoejoe]

He was always calm as fuck, seemed like he was always sure that no matter what his opponent did he would find a way to win. Keeping calm under fire is just what he did, I remember when Hunt was trying to put him in a key lock(I think) and the look on his face suggested that he gave zero fucks about Hunts top game.

 

[AKS1]

Trying to armbar a high level BJJ blackbelt from the bottom doesn't sound like a great strategy unless you are a truly elite submission grappler. And how often does that ever work? The elite ADCC contender type guys generally have 0 submission losses for their career (MMA career, to clarify), so it's a terrible strategy to try it, perhaps one of the worst strategies you can have in MMA given it almost never results in a win and probably will open you up to getting submitted yourself. The correct strategy would be to keep your arms and legs close and play it safe until you can get to your feet. If you are Jacar

 

[JustOnce]

Well I'm not talking about necessarily old Fedor thought I'm sure that his skills deteriorated by quite a bit on the ground.

If you look at him against Arona, he just got passed by Arona like million times and he didn't seem to care. One thing I gotta say about that though, I'm not sure if anyone would be able to just shake Arona off from MOUNT like Fedor was able to do back then a couple times, he just made it easy. But, still, he just got passed to side mount so easy it was just surreal back then. And against Mark Hunt in 2006, Mark Hunt was looking like Josh Barnett on top of Fedor.

 

[kikikhan]

Well I'm not talking about necessarily old Fedor thought I'm sure that his skills deteriorated by quite a bit on the ground.

If you look at him against Arona, he just got passed by Arona and he didn't seem to care. One thing I gotta say about that though, I'm not sure if anyone would be able to just shake Arona off from MOUNT like Fedor was able to do back then a couple times, he just made it easy. But, still, he just got passed to side mount so easy it was just surreal back then. And against Mark Hunt in 2006, Mark Hunt was looking like Josh Barnett on top of Fedor.

Read my previous post.

 

[JustOnce]

One thing is to conserve energy, throw opponents off balance and be tricky and use little movements and the other is to just let the other guy pass to side mount without trying though, wouldn't you say

 

[MaureenCretis]

"Bottom Game" is a truly unfortunate phrase.

 

[Karelinator]

Eh, sorry but your entire post seems to be about Bigfoot fight.

In fights with Coleman, or Hunt for first example he was scrambling like madman, so not sure what your thread is about.

 

[JustOnce]

Eh, sorry but your entire post seems to be about Bigfoot fight.

In fights with Coleman, or Hunt for first example he was scrambling like madman, so not sure what your thread is about.

He looked like a dead fish to me when Hunt side mounted him. Did you see Arona fight? He didn't do ANYTHING from the sidemount and let basically Arona pass into mount. Though, it was kinda impressive how he shook off Arona from the mount like that. Not sure a whole lot of people would be able to do that to Arona when he gets into mount.

 

[JustOnce]

I just wish his bottom game was better. I always thought to beat him you would need a grappler with a great top game because well frankly, I didn't think anybody would have easy time catching him from the bottom, but he made a mistake, and didn't think there would be a guy who could outstrike him or knock him out on the feet who is good enough to keep it standing.

Hendo did knock him out, but yeah, from that position, in billion MMA fights, seriously, when on earth did that happen before? Hendo was stalling half the fight against the cage, backing up, got knocked down, and literally landed that puncher's chance punch.

 

[Greco_Wiz]

During his Pride reign, his bottom game was great. The sport hadn't evolved to the level it is today. He probably had the best bottom game in the HW division with Big Nog being a close second.

As the sport evolved, he didnt. His lack of Bjj and wrestling was his downfall. Big guys with solid sub D would have crushed him in the same fashion Silva did. Admittedly in a ring he would be far better off.

 

[Hanri]

ADCC openweight champ

UFC hw champ and ncaa div 1 wrestler

top notch bjj blackbelt

UFC hw champ and olympic wrestler